Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 1845617" data-attributes="member: 23094">Well, if you don't believe me by now, you probably won't after this, but I'll try anyway...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> Actually:So...1. You get a flanking bonus to melee attack rolls if the opponent is threatened by the guy opposite you.2. To determine flanking, draw a line between the two "flankers-to-be."  If it crosses opposite borders / corners, then the opponent is flanked.3. You can't get a flanking bonus unless the other guy threatens your opponent.Note that the only flanking bonus mentioned is a +2 flanking bonus on melee attack rolls.  That means the last statement is redundant, as it repeats the first statement in slightly different words.Note, also, that none of the statements specificy that *you* must threaten your opponent.Therefore, the rest of this paragraph: Doesn't matter.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Actually, what *you* are missing is that nowhere does it say that you must also threaten your opponent - merely that the flanking bonus to hit only applies on melee attacks, and then only when your compatriot is also threatening.Therefore, two rogues, one 25' East of a goblin, and one 25' west of a goblin, are flanking that goblin - the line between them "passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders)," so therefore "the opponent is flanked."Neither would receive a +2 flanking bonus on his or her to hit roll - since the ally opposite does not threaten - but both would be eligible to do sneak attack damage:I sense that you are about to make the argument that you are only flanking when you receive for the +2 flanking bonus on your to hit roll.There are problems with such a line of reasoning, however.For example:Another combat modifier is the -4 / - penalty (melee / ranged) assigned for being prone.  If your argument above - that you are only flanking when you receive the +2 flanking bonus on your to hit roll - is true, then a character is only prone when he receives the -4 penalty on his melee attacks.This is obviously not the case, so it must be true that it is possible for a condition to exist - flanking, prone, higher ground, whatever - even if all the modifiers of that condition do not currently apply.  Similarly, a person may be flanking even if all the modifiers of the flanking condition - in this case, a +2 flanking bonus on melee to hit rolls - are not actively applied.Moreover, as Hyp has pointed out, if you argue that the definition of flanking is dependent on the attacker receiving the bonus, you have a problem with the hive mind creatures.  Since only one creature may attack at any given moment in time, only one creature may be flanking at any given moment in time, and thus 2 formians (et. al.) can never be flanked - it is impossible to meet the "all formians must be flanked in order for any to be flanked" condition.Immaterial; there are no diagrams of a character jumping from a roof provoking an AoO for movement, either.</blockquote>

Verification