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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 2542386" data-attributes="member: 22779">Ok, let's see if I can be coherent.  I've been having trouble with that, so, here goes. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />From what I understand, people are arguing that later players and versions of DnD have moved farther and farther away from the roots of Tolkein or Howard.  At some point in the past, DnD closely resembled Tolkein and now it doesn't.   That is how I am understanding the arguement.  If that's incorrect, I appologise.Now, to answer the idea that we started close to Tolkein and then moved farther away, I would say that DnD has only ever passingly come close to Tolkein.  Other than creatures and a few concepts, DnD in play has never looked like Tolkein.  Now, before you start tossing tomatoes at me, let me give an example.  Take the famous scene in Moria when the goblins come boiling out of the halls to chase the heroes.  What do the heroes do?  They run.  "Fly you fools" says Gandalf.Pardon me?  Gandalf, in DnD terms is a double digit spell caster.  He may not be the greatest mage around, but, he's certainly in the top ten.  And he's running from goblins.  Imagine the situation around the gaming table for a second:DM:  You see hundreds of goblins boil out of every entrance to the great hall.  They are everywhere behind you.Wizzie:  I cast protection from missiles.  They're more than one round behind us right?Dm:  Yup.Wizzie:  Ok, second round, I cast fly, rise up about forty feet.DM:  The goblins pelt you with arrows to no effect.Wizzie:  Hmm, ok, time to magic 'em till they glow.  We'll lead off with a wall of fire to slow them down.  Follow that with a couple of fireballs, maybe a Major Creation to make lots of oil, close to the wall of fire.DM:  Thousands of goblins die.  But!  Here comes the dreaded Balrog.Wizzie and Players:  All RIGHT!  TIme for some serious XP.  None of that nickle and dime crap anymore.  We hit this thing with everything we got!DM:  Balrog dies.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />THAT'S how that scene from the LOTR would play out around a high level DnD table in any edition.  First, Second or Third, it doesn't matter.  High level mages are death on wheels and they are NOT going to start running from a bunch of bloody goblins.  Or, take Conan for a second.  Conan once again swings into that forbidden temple to save the fair damsel.  High Priest Gehnerik sneers at the steely thewed barbarian, drops a Hold Person and giggles slightly as Conan freezes in mid stride.  End of story.The idea that DnD has abandoned its roots is a false one brought on by nostalgia IMO.   DnD has never had its roots in Tolkein or Howard or Leiber.  It borrowed lots of ideas from all of them and more, that's true.  I won't deny that at all.  And certainly any player of DnD should read those authors.  Denying them their place is like trying to study English Lit without reading Shakespeare.  Seeing where things began is always a good thing.  But, DnD has never had more than a passing relationship with those authors.  They were the source of ideas nothing more.  And certainly nothing less as well.</blockquote>

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