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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MarauderX" data-source="post: 1173602" data-attributes="member: 9990">Hmmm.... Maybe I have this wrong, but it would be the wizards that would be surprised, not the monks.  So that may mean the wizards don't have the chance to put on any buffs, or have any spells prepped when the monks ambush them.  Let me play out a scenario for the supposed underdogs then... as it may depend heavily on the tactics used.  Monks tend to be great wizard-killers, and are easy to build to be that way.  Sending all those monks with the faster movement, tumble and such, and they will be grappling those wizards in a round and dealing damage each round thereafter.  The monks also have anti-spell abilities like Evasion and Still Mind, and with their higher saves they may not be touched by any spell, whether damaging or mind affecting.  Using the many rogues for flanking could reduce the clerics in short order, leaving the wizard group without any healing, and the wizards will fall faster.  As the monks, I would have the monks ignore the fighters altogether by tumbling out of their way until the end of the fight, relying on enhancements like Mage Armor cast by your own wizards to raise ACs by 4 for the battle.  Add in an Enlarged monk2/fighter2 with Great Throw and watch him rule the center of the battle by tossing the fighters in his threatened area, then when they stand have him toss them again as an AoO.  If they came in from all sides, the Enlarged monk(s) with Great Throw would go straight to the knights, fighters, warriors and/or clerics.  The 'regular' monks would go straight for the wizards, the rogues could either help with flanking any wizards who made the grapple check or flank the clerics.  The extra fighter 1(5) I would send in to help take out the clerics and wizards, as they would get chewed up easily by the knights or the other fighters.  The wizards could have a bunch of magic items that they could use when being grappled though, so they may be able to use them when they are wrapped up by a monk.  The monks may need to disarm them during the grapple first, and could be annoying.  Once the higher level wizards are done, the task remains to eliminate the clerics from healing any of them back up, which is where the rogues come in to tumble in their way and get AoOs.  The Enlarged monks and anyone else around the knights will probably get kicked around by easily by them, so the clerics would need to either heal them, fight them, or hopefully a few of the wizards will have dropped and more monks will be able to get there to help them out.  Once the wizards start dropping off, it will be more easy to overwealm the warriors and knights with shear numbers.  It may be more of an advantage for any free monks to grapple the knights to prevent them from using Cleave of other feats they probably have.  Having a rogue or two in there to flank helps a lot, and soon the knights and warriors will be thinned out while they hack down some peon troops that the clerics can heal up again.  Not that the fight would go that way, as dice rolls, feats, spells and such can really turn the tide of battle in any round.  Overall, I think the wizard group still has the firepower and muscle to take down the monks since the monks can't deal out damage fast enough like they can.</blockquote>

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