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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Evenglare" data-source="post: 6723055" data-attributes="member: 63245">[MENTION=6701872]AaronOfBarbaria[/MENTION] "CR isn't a crutch, and it doesn't stop working when used as intended - and since teaching a DM how to "be good" isn't actually a thing where you can just tell someone how to do it, they have to be given a general idea how to do it (which CR actually helps provide) and then be left to find their style and what works for their group (which CR stays conveniently out of the way of)."This is completely untrue. CR is meaningless, it's why this whole thread exists in the first place! If it was working as intended there wouldn't be 11 pages of people describing how their parties can destroy monsters at much higher levels. You say earlier that I said it was meaningless and then I described what the CR does. Yeah.. that's not a contradiction. If the CR isn't doing what it needs to be doing it's meaningless. It doesn't make it automatically a meaningful tool if it doesn't even gauge the party level correctly. Let's say you want to need to hammer something into the wall, and then I gave them a banana and say GOODLUCK! The banana isn't meaningless, but in that situation it's clearly the wrong tool for the job. So you can say how awesome and wonderful the CR is and it does it's job well. Okay, so that might flt into your playstyle. Other GMs may have better prepared characters, those characters might have some sort of crazy item. They may be different level characters. There's literally thousands of character builds using variables such as HP, Skills, Saves, Items, special ablities, magic system etc. If you have had beyond a 9th grade math education you should INSTANTLY see why the CR is godawful at determining this type of stuff. It's like sayingAx^9 +ln B/ YR + E^O - ART - (5i+ 45,00 S) - VRK^-1 SQRT(l+ AD)= X Find X numerically, X is CR and every other letter is a variable that goes into calculating X. You simply can not do it. You can't take into all the facts. You certainly can't provide anecdotal evidence as proof that if CRs work for you they must be correct and work for everyone. No. Again, it's why OP made this thread. There's hundreds more like it. People know CR is an awful sacred cow that should have been put down YEARS ago. I have a hell of a lot of RPGs (GURPS, HERO, EORIS, Cypher system (they have tiers as I suggested but enemies don't really scale so they don't really use CR), Savage worlds, Mutants and Mastermind usually sticks with one powerlevel... etc etc ) and most of them describe to the GM how to create a challenging encounter. Those enemies don't have "level" or "CR". The GM must understand the game then apply the understanding.</blockquote>

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