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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6723323" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Per DMG guidelines, +4 to AC is +1 CR, and the dragon's other abilities like Darkness and Invisibility are mostly "free" from a CR perspective, so call it +2 total CR for the possibility of Quickened Fireball and Shield. So, CR 19ish. I was posting in reaction to "<span style="color: #000000">Yea I've basically come to the conclusion that any one monster thrown at a party of 5 players is going to die" so I didn't bother to downgrade the monster to CR 15, especially because I didn't know at first what level your PCs were at. That Red Dragon is a mildly downgraded version of one of the minor "villains" (of a sort) of my home campaign, who is level 9 instead of level 5. He scares the pants off the PCs and they are currently scrambling for thousands of gold pieces to meet his demand for "this much gold" (expansive gesture) "by tomorrow," although dragons IMG are both innumerate and have trouble with time, so every day I roll a d20 in front of the players to see if the dragon realizes it's now "tomorrow", time for them to pay up.</span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">In fairness, it is kind of the PCs' own fault for volunteering to find him treasure--all he did was accept their offer.</span></p><p></p><p>A Young Red Dragon with Dragon Sorcerer 5 (CR 12ish) will mess them up in almost identical fashion. That's well within your original "5 fifth level PCs vs. 1 CR 15" parameters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6723323, member: 6787650"] Per DMG guidelines, +4 to AC is +1 CR, and the dragon's other abilities like Darkness and Invisibility are mostly "free" from a CR perspective, so call it +2 total CR for the possibility of Quickened Fireball and Shield. So, CR 19ish. I was posting in reaction to "[COLOR=#000000]Yea I've basically come to the conclusion that any one monster thrown at a party of 5 players is going to die" so I didn't bother to downgrade the monster to CR 15, especially because I didn't know at first what level your PCs were at. That Red Dragon is a mildly downgraded version of one of the minor "villains" (of a sort) of my home campaign, who is level 9 instead of level 5. He scares the pants off the PCs and they are currently scrambling for thousands of gold pieces to meet his demand for "this much gold" (expansive gesture) "by tomorrow," although dragons IMG are both innumerate and have trouble with time, so every day I roll a d20 in front of the players to see if the dragon realizes it's now "tomorrow", time for them to pay up. In fairness, it is kind of the PCs' own fault for volunteering to find him treasure--all he did was accept their offer.[/COLOR] A Young Red Dragon with Dragon Sorcerer 5 (CR 12ish) will mess them up in almost identical fashion. That's well within your original "5 fifth level PCs vs. 1 CR 15" parameters. [/QUOTE]
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