Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Who's still playing 4E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6665731" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>It's hard to give specifics, but there are some general patterns that I think really help:</p><p></p><p>1) Having, as others have said, a "crib notes" version of your character sheet, specifically geared for combat use. When I temporarily took over the Wizard, I jotted down the powers he had, defenses, etc. It helped that he mostly tried to stay out of sight and such. I'm strongly considering making a simplified "list of powers + basic tactics" file to work from during play.</p><p></p><p>2) "Lumping" similar enemies together. Got five of the same thing on the board? Give them one initiative count and roll all same/similar attacks before rolling any damage. This will mostly apply to DMs, of course.</p><p></p><p>3) Use something to represent enemy morale. A simple system checks for loss of group leader, hitting half strength, and losing the numbers advantage, for multi-person fights. For solos, consider bloodied and half bloodied to be turning points, if a solo's gonna break it will start to show by then. Basically, avoid spelling out the tail end of a foregone combat, especially if your players like to capture enemies alive rather than having a "kill 'em all" attitude.</p><p></p><p>4) Don't be afraid to use minions. Over-use is possible, but they're really nice for making fights seem scarier than they are.</p><p></p><p>5) Encourage the spreading out of resources throughout the day, while discouraging "perfectionist" power usage. It's REALLY hard to use a legitimately "bad" power in 4e, but it's also hard to get a perfect storm of effects. I've done it, but that was because the choice was easy to see (Dragon Breath onto a space with 7/9 square occupied, then pop a daily to hit 4-5 adjacent enemies and continually mark all adj. enemies for the rest of the combat? Yes please.) Such things should be rare and feel awesome when they happen, rather than being seen as the "default."</p><p></p><p>6) On the other hand, don't feel at all bad/remind your players it's not bad to use At-Wills. In that same fight as the beautiful setup, I ended up using At-Wills for *most* of the other rounds...and still felt like I was helping. In this sense, the Essentials classes are somewhat helpful, actually, because they naturally encourage more Basic Attacks. Having a very beat-'em-up style Leader, and a party that can take advantage of it, will also help there.</p><p></p><p>7) Consider, during down time or between sessions, having your group's rules buff (who may not be the DM) talk briefly one on one with each player. Stuff like, "when we get into a fight, what are your priorities? If you go last, who are you watching for a good set-up? If you go first, who do you hope will follow your lead?" Things like that can really really help. IMO, 4e is much more a "team game" than prior editions. Your party doesn't have to be a Radiant Mafia nor a crazy basic-attack extravaganza, but things will go faster and generally better if they know both what they can do for a friend, and what their friends can do for them.</p><p></p><p>8) This last one can be a double-edged sword, but having terrain more interesting than "flat, open field/empty room" can also make a big difference. That "obvious" set-up I mentioned earlier happened because the entryway funneled the attackers right at us, so they were all bunched up and pouring out from one place. Have your players think, as much as possible, about where they would best be able to use their cool moves. A Wizard wants to balance "not getting shanked" with "close enough to drop sick fires on the far side of the choke point." A Paladin (which I'm playing) must balance holding attention while not getting in over his head. Rangers will depend on whether they're melee or ranged focused. An Avenger may want one guy all alone, or may want to have all their friends join the beatdown. The terrain will influence how easy these general goal are, and players should immediately start thinking about where they can go to have the most effect. In a sense, it's a bit like learning to mentally "see" the possible moves any given chess piece can make, so you're able to see a potential fork before it happens.</p><p></p><p>Edit:</p><p>Gosh, can't believe I forgot this one!</p><p>9) <strong>Minor actions and off-turn attacks are a "sometimes" food!</strong> If your group has timing problems, cut down on off-turn actions, and remind them that there is no shame in having nothing to spend your minor on. Minor actions tend to be relatively specialized, so it's okay if you don't use it every round. One solution I saw...somewhere...was to make an "aim" universal minor action: +1 to hit a particular target for your other attacks that turn. Simple, obviously effective, but clearly less good than a sustain or minor action attack, if available. Also helps avert the whiff effect.</p><p></p><p>Also...</p><p>10) Use later-era monster stats, MV or MM3 or later. If you played mostly early 4e WotC adventures....that's also partly to blame, WotC's early work was...frankly atrocious for 4e adventures (or so I've heard). Newer monsters are less "big sack of HP," more "fragile but nasty." They die faster, but they tear up PCs faster, too--much more exciting, much more "is this it, are we going to die?" without, generally, dying.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6665731, member: 6790260"] It's hard to give specifics, but there are some general patterns that I think really help: 1) Having, as others have said, a "crib notes" version of your character sheet, specifically geared for combat use. When I temporarily took over the Wizard, I jotted down the powers he had, defenses, etc. It helped that he mostly tried to stay out of sight and such. I'm strongly considering making a simplified "list of powers + basic tactics" file to work from during play. 2) "Lumping" similar enemies together. Got five of the same thing on the board? Give them one initiative count and roll all same/similar attacks before rolling any damage. This will mostly apply to DMs, of course. 3) Use something to represent enemy morale. A simple system checks for loss of group leader, hitting half strength, and losing the numbers advantage, for multi-person fights. For solos, consider bloodied and half bloodied to be turning points, if a solo's gonna break it will start to show by then. Basically, avoid spelling out the tail end of a foregone combat, especially if your players like to capture enemies alive rather than having a "kill 'em all" attitude. 4) Don't be afraid to use minions. Over-use is possible, but they're really nice for making fights seem scarier than they are. 5) Encourage the spreading out of resources throughout the day, while discouraging "perfectionist" power usage. It's REALLY hard to use a legitimately "bad" power in 4e, but it's also hard to get a perfect storm of effects. I've done it, but that was because the choice was easy to see (Dragon Breath onto a space with 7/9 square occupied, then pop a daily to hit 4-5 adjacent enemies and continually mark all adj. enemies for the rest of the combat? Yes please.) Such things should be rare and feel awesome when they happen, rather than being seen as the "default." 6) On the other hand, don't feel at all bad/remind your players it's not bad to use At-Wills. In that same fight as the beautiful setup, I ended up using At-Wills for *most* of the other rounds...and still felt like I was helping. In this sense, the Essentials classes are somewhat helpful, actually, because they naturally encourage more Basic Attacks. Having a very beat-'em-up style Leader, and a party that can take advantage of it, will also help there. 7) Consider, during down time or between sessions, having your group's rules buff (who may not be the DM) talk briefly one on one with each player. Stuff like, "when we get into a fight, what are your priorities? If you go last, who are you watching for a good set-up? If you go first, who do you hope will follow your lead?" Things like that can really really help. IMO, 4e is much more a "team game" than prior editions. Your party doesn't have to be a Radiant Mafia nor a crazy basic-attack extravaganza, but things will go faster and generally better if they know both what they can do for a friend, and what their friends can do for them. 8) This last one can be a double-edged sword, but having terrain more interesting than "flat, open field/empty room" can also make a big difference. That "obvious" set-up I mentioned earlier happened because the entryway funneled the attackers right at us, so they were all bunched up and pouring out from one place. Have your players think, as much as possible, about where they would best be able to use their cool moves. A Wizard wants to balance "not getting shanked" with "close enough to drop sick fires on the far side of the choke point." A Paladin (which I'm playing) must balance holding attention while not getting in over his head. Rangers will depend on whether they're melee or ranged focused. An Avenger may want one guy all alone, or may want to have all their friends join the beatdown. The terrain will influence how easy these general goal are, and players should immediately start thinking about where they can go to have the most effect. In a sense, it's a bit like learning to mentally "see" the possible moves any given chess piece can make, so you're able to see a potential fork before it happens. Edit: Gosh, can't believe I forgot this one! 9) [B]Minor actions and off-turn attacks are a "sometimes" food![/B] If your group has timing problems, cut down on off-turn actions, and remind them that there is no shame in having nothing to spend your minor on. Minor actions tend to be relatively specialized, so it's okay if you don't use it every round. One solution I saw...somewhere...was to make an "aim" universal minor action: +1 to hit a particular target for your other attacks that turn. Simple, obviously effective, but clearly less good than a sustain or minor action attack, if available. Also helps avert the whiff effect. Also... 10) Use later-era monster stats, MV or MM3 or later. If you played mostly early 4e WotC adventures....that's also partly to blame, WotC's early work was...frankly atrocious for 4e adventures (or so I've heard). Newer monsters are less "big sack of HP," more "fragile but nasty." They die faster, but they tear up PCs faster, too--much more exciting, much more "is this it, are we going to die?" without, generally, dying. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Who's still playing 4E
Top