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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 2416551" data-attributes="member: 9410">It's Not Just The Law; It's A Good Idea!In other words: "What's mine is mine, and I'll keep it!  What's yours is mine, and I'll take it!"  As a self-styled "copyright specialist", S'mon, I'd sure like to know which part of the Fair Use doctrine you THINK you're looking at?!?Here's the real deal, for the Lawfuls in the group:Any time that anything is fixed (that is, written, typed, saved electronically, etc., ad mauseum), the Copyright belongs to the person who fixed it, with certain very specific exceptions... (Works for Hire, for example, where I pay you to write me a story, with the understanding that *I* have all the rights to it).Thus, when I create a character, and fix it in some form, I own the Copyright (for whatever that's worth... keep reading)!  I also have the Moral Rights, under the Berne Convention (International Copyright Law).  If a GM creates a campaign world, such as PirateCat's Spira, then (s)he owns the Copyright on that...Now, when you use them together, it becomes a group work...  If Eredave (my PC) enters Spira, Eredave remains mine, and Spira remains PirateCat's.  We have no rights to each others' work, unless we allow it.  (Think about this one, GMs: Eredave tells PC "Okay, now I trap Spira, creating a Sphere of Annihilation around it!"  To which PirateCat replies, "Uh, no, you don't... he can't do that!")  Now add more Players, each with their own PCs to the collaboration, and things get even messier!Now you have multiple Copyright owners, working together (well, USUALLY!) to create a story.  Each owns their own creations, and the act of collaboration does not change that fact!  So who owns the tale of the adventure, when they're done?ALL of them.  None can use the others' parts without their permission!  You GMs may not like it, but that's the truth!  (If Mariah Carey and I write a song, she does the words and I do the tune, can either one of us use it without the other's permission?  Well, yes, if we don't mind being SUED for it, just like the artist whose painting got the moustache & glasses added on can sue the vandal who did it!)We did an online, round-robin story, one time.  One person started it, another added to that, and it continued on, each developing the story in turn, until it was dropped by the mass...  I took the story, and finished it.  One of the other writers didn't like what I did with his character... and the story was never published!  Couldn't use his characters without his permission!  One guy stopped the project, cold!  That's the way it works.But wait!  With games, it gets even MORE fun!  Y'see, as Diaglo was trying to point out (I think!), when I create Eredave in D&D stats, under some theories of law, that is a "Derivative Work".  WotC COULD (if they were dumb) try to claim that this belonged to them.  (Hey, think back!  T$R DID this, disallowing posts of ANY D&D material on the net, suing web site owners (who couldn't afford to go to court to fight it!), creating a lotta ill-will against thenselves, and eventually cutting their own business throats!)And if I do up Eredave in D&D, GURPS, & LA stats?  Wotc, Steve Jackson, and Trigee could all come after me... even though any claims that my work was somehow "derived" from each of them would thereby be weakened...  It is MUCH more likely that my work came first, and was translated into all of them!  But still, they could sue...  Just like I could sue you, for spitting on the sidewalk, charging you with, oh, say, "Creating a Public Nuisance", or "Littering", or some other such stupidity.  Just because a lawsuit is stupid doesn't mean it can't be pursued, in court.  Believe me, it can!So, GMs, suppose your player sues you...  If you so desire, and cannot afford one, an attorney will be appointed for you, without charge... (from the Public Defender's Office).  Off to court...  He presents his character sheet, showing that he created the PC, and he has Copyright.  WotC thinks you two are silly, and doesn't claim Derivative Rights.  You admit that he created the PC.  What happens?It depends.  He owns the Copyright, so the case is going against you.  He can probably produce friends to back up his claim.  You probably won't perjure yourself.  You propose your theory of "Well, he played in my game, so it's understood that I have certain rights"!  "No, it's NOT understood!" he shouts.  The Judge asks to see this contract you're playing under...  You can't produce one.  You both produce witnesses who testify to their recollections and understandings...  Finally, the Judge pronounces "A Verbal Contract isn't worth the paper it's NOT printed on!"  The GM has no grounds to stand on, there!The Judge agrees that the Copyright for the PC belongs to the player, and that the GM has violated it.  He then turns to the player's attorney, and asks him "Do you have proof of monetary loses?"  Uh-oh!  Nope!  Not looking great for the player, now!Since the player can't really show how he was damaged by the (mis-)use of his Copyright, the GM will probably be told to stop using it, have a record as a Copyright violator, and have to remove his material from the web (or wherever).  The player will have the satisfaction of being vindicated... and a whole HEAP of legal bills!UNLESS!  Did that sneaky player ever actually bother to pay the $20 fee, and fill out that one little form, sending a copy of his character to the Copyright Office, for Copyright Registration (which is different from Copyright!)???  If so, then when the Judge asks that damages be proved, the attorney for the prosecution (Player) can simply say "No, your Honor, but my client has Registered his work with the Copyright Office, therefore we ask for the..." (I forget the proper word; usual, standard, customary, whatever) "...damages!"  "Awarded!" says the Judge, "Pay the cashier, on your way out!"So y'see, asking the Players' permission is not only a good idea, but can save you a whole heap'a trouble, Bunky!  It's not just the law, it's a good idea!!! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" /></blockquote>

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