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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Why 3.5 Worked
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7883743" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I can't accept the whole one-note player pigeonholing. Maybe there was just too much of it during the edition war. Maybe it's just that it's just me. I <em>really</em> liked 3e, more 3.0 than 3.5, but still. I really liked AD&D back in the day. I really liked 4e. So all the "edition X only appeals to player Y" rationalizations are singularly unconvincing to me. </p><p></p><p>But, 3.x did have definite appeal on several dimensions. It was an elaborate exercise in rewarding system mastery, inspired in that way by WotC's own M:tG. It also could be turned to detailed/evocative build-to-concept. It was also OGL. Nor was that all...</p><p></p><p>Honestly, if only for myself, 3e worked because of the whole "Back to the Dungeon" attitude. The hobby had been notionally led by the storyteller crowd for close to a decade, and the novelty had worn off. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> 3e was D&D, fixed up and made into a Core System (like BRP, d6, Interlock & others from the 80s), and open-source core system, even: d20. Yea, it was also a 'build' system deeply & intentionally susceptible to optimization. </p><p></p><p>3.5, OTOH, was just the consequence of being taken over by Hasbro - y'know, the old grognardly 'cash grab' complaint. It worked out because the 3e crowd was deeply bought into RaW system-mastery, and 3.0 stuff held until superseded, producing all sorts of interesting, shifting opportunities for mastery. That kind of deep buy-in could have held onto those fans indefinitely - and did hold onto them for an additional 10 years, even into the teeth of 5e's overwhelming market dominance.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and 3.x in general, was also a very player-centric game, the DM was more like a player than any other edition. Oh, and, while I don't care for PvP, 3.x was easily the best edition for that purpose, too. </p><p>I could go on. </p><p>RPGs are complex, they potentially have a lot of depth. They can be approached in different ways by different players. And the players and the styles of play aren't one-dimensional, either, so you CAN go ahead and appreciate more than one game, for more than one reason each.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7883743, member: 996"] I can't accept the whole one-note player pigeonholing. Maybe there was just too much of it during the edition war. Maybe it's just that it's just me. I [I]really[/I] liked 3e, more 3.0 than 3.5, but still. I really liked AD&D back in the day. I really liked 4e. So all the "edition X only appeals to player Y" rationalizations are singularly unconvincing to me. But, 3.x did have definite appeal on several dimensions. It was an elaborate exercise in rewarding system mastery, inspired in that way by WotC's own M:tG. It also could be turned to detailed/evocative build-to-concept. It was also OGL. Nor was that all... Honestly, if only for myself, 3e worked because of the whole "Back to the Dungeon" attitude. The hobby had been notionally led by the storyteller crowd for close to a decade, and the novelty had worn off. ;) 3e was D&D, fixed up and made into a Core System (like BRP, d6, Interlock & others from the 80s), and open-source core system, even: d20. Yea, it was also a 'build' system deeply & intentionally susceptible to optimization. 3.5, OTOH, was just the consequence of being taken over by Hasbro - y'know, the old grognardly 'cash grab' complaint. It worked out because the 3e crowd was deeply bought into RaW system-mastery, and 3.0 stuff held until superseded, producing all sorts of interesting, shifting opportunities for mastery. That kind of deep buy-in could have held onto those fans indefinitely - and did hold onto them for an additional 10 years, even into the teeth of 5e's overwhelming market dominance. Oh, and 3.x in general, was also a very player-centric game, the DM was more like a player than any other edition. Oh, and, while I don't care for PvP, 3.x was easily the best edition for that purpose, too. I could go on. RPGs are complex, they potentially have a lot of depth. They can be approached in different ways by different players. And the players and the styles of play aren't one-dimensional, either, so you CAN go ahead and appreciate more than one game, for more than one reason each. [/QUOTE]
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