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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7885506" data-attributes="member: 20564">I'm going to try to shorten this up.  You seem to have some misconceptions about my position so it feels you are talking past me, not addressing my point.I said they were broken. In that trying to create high level foes from scratch took an far too much time.  Could you do it?  Sure.  But it's like in 4e where combats started taking more than a session - You could do it, but that doesn't mean that you should.As for the rest of this block, quoting the easy cases does not mean that it handled the hard cases.  Except for the part about single foes - if I implied that, that was my mistake.  I thought I had been clear when I called out doing 4-5 NPCs for an encounter how long it took that I wasn't talking about a single foe.Actually, my position is that they didn't work under particular cases, such as creating high level foes or creating NPCs of near-PC-level that were reasonable challenges for those PCs considering the effort the players put into picking PrCs and the like. But that is scattered across multiple posts, I can understand that if it hasn't been particularly clear.As you can see from the responses on this very thread, time and time again others who are defending 3.x are the ones urging to just ignore the rules -- as if that shows that they are not broken.  It's the people who like 3.5 who are bigger advocates of never using it.  That should give an indication that it was not a easy and well loved subsystem.If the point is drunk driving, saying that some people are very creative under the influence may be true but doesn't address the point.  The point is how much details, and therefore effort, the rules required was outrageous in a lot of circumstances when you wanted to use them.  And when part of those circumstances happen fairly regularly, like getting to higher levels, that's notThe topic at hand is overly complex and time consuming rules for creation of foes.  Which didn't exist in the the earlier editions.  Pointing out that earlier editions you could do such a thing without the incredibly unwieldy system does not support the incredibly unwieldy system.This literally has no bearing on the point at hand.  I have never been against modifying monsters.Let me get this straight: the system that you have been defending as not hard to use you are admitting isn't usable regularly?  Thank you, that was entirely my point.  I think I can be done now.</blockquote>

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