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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 2107936" data-attributes="member: 177">Yes.  Unfortunately, while everybody knows that two points make a line, they also somehow get it stuck in their heads that two events make a trend.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />Also, 4e gets talked about a lot because many people here like to theorize and speculate.  And a new edition is a framework on which one can hang speculations.I don't, at least insofar as the edition numbering is concerned.  Even if we consider 3e to really be a 1st edition of d20 Fantasy, the changes in 3.5e really dont' make it a 2nd edition of d20 Fantasy.  Oh, then why did you note it here?  Honestly, this phrasing is like the old "I don't want to stick my nose in where it doesn't belong, but..."  If you want to say it, just say it and be done with it.As to the similarities - you might (or might not) have a reasonable argument that mechanically 3e is closer to other games than it's origins.  But there's much more to a game than the mechanics.  Theme and style and trappings are terribly important.  And on that score, 3e is still prety close to its roots.  I really doubt many folks would claim that, in play, 3e is much at all like Ars Magica.</blockquote>