Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Why 4E?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="wingsandsword" data-source="post: 2109189" data-attributes="member: 14159"><p>Well, the typical gamer's antipathy towards "suits" is well justified IMO.</p><p></p><p>Remember "she who shall not be named", who owned TSR and made D&D while openly expressing her contempt for the people who play it. Remember how corporate mechinations forced TSR away from Gygax and into the hands of corporate "suits" who didn't know the game and didn't really care about it. These same non-gamers who earned TSR the nicknames of "They sue regularly" and "T$R" for their overaggressive copyright policies that sued fans for posting a homebrew spell or class on their website?</p><p></p><p>Those wonderful professional marketing decisions included removing "Demons", "Devils", and Assassins from D&D to placate the Religious Right, the flop of Dragon Dice, the fizzle of Spellfire and SAGA Dragonlance 5th Age. Remember Ryan Dancey's famous open letter about saving D&D, and even he remarked with sadness about reading the corporate minutes of TSR and how they morphed from the notes of gamers who loved the game into the terse dictation of lawyers with no connection to gaming? Just because you have an MBA doesn't mean you're competent to produce something with as much tradition and eccentricities as D&D, you need to know the field and know it's traditions and practices. The business world is littered with the corpses of companies run by executives who didn't know the field they were in and didn't think it mattered because "all companies run the same".</p><p></p><p>So, many gamers consider "suits" to be the enemy, because in the past they have been antagonistic to gaming and their "professional" business skill nearly drove the game into oblivion, and gamers know that those "suits" don't want a better written, better designed game, they want whatever will sell the most units, and if that they thought that meant turning D&D into a boardgame they'd do it in a heartbeat and tell us "tough". At the absolute best, they are uneasy allies, because they do not share our interests and at best their goals can be compatible with ours (the success and proliferation of D&D, but how it succeeds and proliferates is room for major contention).</p><p></p><p>We were lucky that WotC, before it was owned by Hasbro, rescued D&D from the wreckage of TSR and gave us a well written, heavily playtested, open-source version of D&D. We fear that the game may fall into a slump of mismanagement and there won't be anybody to ride to the rescue.</p><p></p><p>This is the real fear of 4e, the fear that businessmen with the legal rights to the game will produce an edition that sullies the name of D&D in a blatant cash-grab, and that we as the gaming public will be stuck with a new and worse game in-print and seeing something we care deeply about wrecked while we have little recourse.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wingsandsword, post: 2109189, member: 14159"] Well, the typical gamer's antipathy towards "suits" is well justified IMO. Remember "she who shall not be named", who owned TSR and made D&D while openly expressing her contempt for the people who play it. Remember how corporate mechinations forced TSR away from Gygax and into the hands of corporate "suits" who didn't know the game and didn't really care about it. These same non-gamers who earned TSR the nicknames of "They sue regularly" and "T$R" for their overaggressive copyright policies that sued fans for posting a homebrew spell or class on their website? Those wonderful professional marketing decisions included removing "Demons", "Devils", and Assassins from D&D to placate the Religious Right, the flop of Dragon Dice, the fizzle of Spellfire and SAGA Dragonlance 5th Age. Remember Ryan Dancey's famous open letter about saving D&D, and even he remarked with sadness about reading the corporate minutes of TSR and how they morphed from the notes of gamers who loved the game into the terse dictation of lawyers with no connection to gaming? Just because you have an MBA doesn't mean you're competent to produce something with as much tradition and eccentricities as D&D, you need to know the field and know it's traditions and practices. The business world is littered with the corpses of companies run by executives who didn't know the field they were in and didn't think it mattered because "all companies run the same". So, many gamers consider "suits" to be the enemy, because in the past they have been antagonistic to gaming and their "professional" business skill nearly drove the game into oblivion, and gamers know that those "suits" don't want a better written, better designed game, they want whatever will sell the most units, and if that they thought that meant turning D&D into a boardgame they'd do it in a heartbeat and tell us "tough". At the absolute best, they are uneasy allies, because they do not share our interests and at best their goals can be compatible with ours (the success and proliferation of D&D, but how it succeeds and proliferates is room for major contention). We were lucky that WotC, before it was owned by Hasbro, rescued D&D from the wreckage of TSR and gave us a well written, heavily playtested, open-source version of D&D. We fear that the game may fall into a slump of mismanagement and there won't be anybody to ride to the rescue. This is the real fear of 4e, the fear that businessmen with the legal rights to the game will produce an edition that sullies the name of D&D in a blatant cash-grab, and that we as the gaming public will be stuck with a new and worse game in-print and seeing something we care deeply about wrecked while we have little recourse. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Why 4E?
Top