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Why a PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content is a Bad Idea
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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8944671" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>There's a huge gray area that is difficult to discuss. First, we tend to run into the <a href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats" target="_blank">Planet of Hats - TV Tropes</a> with D&D because the books, in general, only supply one default culture for both "civilized" races and "monsters". Personally, I don't think physical form should matter, this issue affects elves as much as dragons.</p><p></p><p>But on the other thread it was suggested that problematic text should be rewritten and censored. When asked who would make the call, the answer was that we would. See Post in thread 'PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content—no more Black orcs, Asian yellow orcs, or Native American red orcs—amend GAZ10 (+positive, A-game thread)' <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/petition-stop-hasbros-hurtful-content%E2%80%94no-more-black-orcs-asian-yellow-orcs-or-native-american-red-orcs%E2%80%94amend-gaz10-positive-a-game-thread.695740/post-8944004" target="_blank">D&D General - PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content—no more Black orcs, Asian yellow orcs, or Native American red orcs—amend GAZ10 (+positive, A-game thread)</a>.</p><p></p><p>How do we figure out who "we" is? How do "we" decide what to review and how to rewrite? I admit I'm not familiar with this particular publication, but I don't see that it matters. It doesn't take much to find several examples of material many people would find objectionable. </p><p></p><p>My poster child for this would be pretty much any book relating to Drow. Even if they were inspired by Norse mythology, a matriarchy of evil elves in black face is not a good look.</p><p></p><p>So what do we do with them? This depiction is <em>everywhere </em> in older materials. I have changes, but they're specific to my campaign. </p><p>[Spoiler]</p><p>Drow are not native to the prime material, they live in Svartleheim where they are controlled my Lollth's influence. That influence gives them dark gray skin, it's kind of a supernatural sunburn. If they escape (any individual that does not follow Lollth's teachings will eventually be revealed) they lose much of the coloration and become gray elves. Gray elves tend to live ascetic lives based on logic and reason (typically LN). In other words, they become Vulcans.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>The publication listed in the other thread may be an extreme example, but D&D is littered with this stuff. I don't see much of a slippery slope* here, I see authors that did the best they could to come up with unique monsters. These authors were also products of their time and didn't consider how stuff they did could be offensive.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, it seems to be virtually impossible to have any species where the default has anything that can be construed in a negative fashion without accusations of racism. So I simply don't see an easy way to fix this.</p><p></p><p>Much like the Huckleberry Finn books are banned because they use the "n" word because it was the language of the time even though Jim was a friend and ally of Huck's. But rather than explain how language changes over time, the book is often banned. </p><p></p><p>I think it would be better to have conversations. </p><p></p><p><em>*I think the argument of the slippery slope trope is often overused to shut down discussion. Yes, a trajectory taken to the extreme can be illogical. But in many cases, where you draw the line can be incredibly fuzzy and should be part of the conversation.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8944671, member: 6801845"] There's a huge gray area that is difficult to discuss. First, we tend to run into the [URL="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats"]Planet of Hats - TV Tropes[/URL] with D&D because the books, in general, only supply one default culture for both "civilized" races and "monsters". Personally, I don't think physical form should matter, this issue affects elves as much as dragons. But on the other thread it was suggested that problematic text should be rewritten and censored. When asked who would make the call, the answer was that we would. See Post in thread 'PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content—no more Black orcs, Asian yellow orcs, or Native American red orcs—amend GAZ10 (+positive, A-game thread)' [URL="https://www.enworld.org/threads/petition-stop-hasbros-hurtful-content%E2%80%94no-more-black-orcs-asian-yellow-orcs-or-native-american-red-orcs%E2%80%94amend-gaz10-positive-a-game-thread.695740/post-8944004"]D&D General - PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content—no more Black orcs, Asian yellow orcs, or Native American red orcs—amend GAZ10 (+positive, A-game thread)[/URL]. How do we figure out who "we" is? How do "we" decide what to review and how to rewrite? I admit I'm not familiar with this particular publication, but I don't see that it matters. It doesn't take much to find several examples of material many people would find objectionable. My poster child for this would be pretty much any book relating to Drow. Even if they were inspired by Norse mythology, a matriarchy of evil elves in black face is not a good look. So what do we do with them? This depiction is [i]everywhere [/i] in older materials. I have changes, but they're specific to my campaign. [Spoiler] Drow are not native to the prime material, they live in Svartleheim where they are controlled my Lollth's influence. That influence gives them dark gray skin, it's kind of a supernatural sunburn. If they escape (any individual that does not follow Lollth's teachings will eventually be revealed) they lose much of the coloration and become gray elves. Gray elves tend to live ascetic lives based on logic and reason (typically LN). In other words, they become Vulcans. [/SPOILER] The publication listed in the other thread may be an extreme example, but D&D is littered with this stuff. I don't see much of a slippery slope* here, I see authors that did the best they could to come up with unique monsters. These authors were also products of their time and didn't consider how stuff they did could be offensive. On the other hand, it seems to be virtually impossible to have any species where the default has anything that can be construed in a negative fashion without accusations of racism. So I simply don't see an easy way to fix this. Much like the Huckleberry Finn books are banned because they use the "n" word because it was the language of the time even though Jim was a friend and ally of Huck's. But rather than explain how language changes over time, the book is often banned. I think it would be better to have conversations. [I]*I think the argument of the slippery slope trope is often overused to shut down discussion. Yes, a trajectory taken to the extreme can be illogical. But in many cases, where you draw the line can be incredibly fuzzy and should be part of the conversation.[/i] [/QUOTE]
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