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Message: <blockquote data-quote="king_ghidorah" data-source="post: 4016582" data-attributes="member: 18404">Without getting into nitpicking details, the answer is to consider what tools you give characters to control monsters. Limitations to raising dead foes (you can't raise all creatures, and those you do don't come with all of their abilities intact, an easy limitation) making charm spells have limits on duration and effect (another easy limitation), and thoughtful placement of magic items would create other limits. But you're right, PCs are wily creatures, and they use the rules to their advantage.And my thought is: say yes, then think about the consequences. Enslaved trolls can be used as soldiers, but how do you keep them loyal? How does doing this affect the perception of the PCs by others? Won't they rebel and fight? Won't this bring the wrath of other monsters? In the end, the PCs still DON'T actually control the monster, the monster is still controlled by the DM, and the monster still has reason to lie and rebel.But let's throw out non-mechanical limits and accept your argument (which still seems spurious to me). There are only two real solutions: monsters are limited so that they can't do anything a PC couldn't do (which would strip away most monster abilities), or that all monster options are available to PCs at some level and that would be the way to gauge and balance the power of the ability -- which works well in systems like GURPS and Hero, but doesn't really work well in D&D.The realistic other option, is to include the idea in the DMG that DMs need to think about how monsters and charm spells interact, and the problems for balance. That should be up there with how to consider the effect of magic in general-- what happens when the characters can fly, teleport, scry, read minds, etc. This is the challenge of magic. Part of the point of it is to break the rules... and DMs probably need advice on how to deal with the outcomes of players' creative use of spells and magic items.</blockquote>

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