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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 8258564" data-attributes="member: 326">Not necessarily. I think I've drifted into parallel topics though.I'm no longer concerned that the switch to Huge size was necessarily a negative. Average Fire Giant height across all editions is 14 feet, so making them 18 feet doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. You can make an argument that perhaps the 5E giants are more 'traditional fantasy'; which is fair enough. The secondary topic was if you make giants less frequent (campaigns will use less of a given monster the more powerful it is, that's a simple fact) then surely you should attempt to make them MORE interesting, rather than less interesting. However 5E giants are notably less interesting than their 4E counterparts both mechanically and thematically. Does that necessarily need to be addressed though, probably not. But food for thought (personally I don't like the 5E Monster Manual very much, its the weakest of the three core books IMO. ).The tertiary topic is where we have ended up though. A dozen giants 'probably' beat any Party of Characters in Official D&D, even 20th level PCs with epic boons. A Level 12 Party invading the halls of a Fire Giant Clan will likely be killed in any scenario where they have to face 5 fire giants at a time. More than that is virtually certain TPK. So in a residence of 105 fire giants you can't have those PC's fight the giants at more than 3-4 at a time (at best); which, call me crazy, sounds completely contrived. Once you alert that base they should be hitting you from all angles constantly. Your only hope is that they might stupidly take up residence in a structure too small for them to move between rooms.What to take from this is that:1. Giants in 5E are helluva tough.2. PC's in 5E are no longer super-heroes at the highest levels.3. An adventure where PCs take on Orcus in his backyard is a virtual impossibility in 5E. Unless you come up with THE most nonsensically contrived encounters even a team of Level 20 PCs with every epic boon in the DMG get REKT. Personally I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but it is an interesting dynamic shift from previous editions.No one can in (official) 5E. Even 10 fire giants will probably defeat a Level 20 party. So assuming 105 Fire Giants to a clan (approx. CR 47 collectively) that means you don't want to be alerting the base.</blockquote>

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