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<blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 9596268" data-attributes="member: 7024481">It's the tight balance and the focus on all no melee classes being expected to be support.&nbsp; PF2E is almost a board game.&nbsp; That was intentional, a core part of the player base loved it.&nbsp; The absolute boring play of most spell casting classes and magic items is an unfortunate side effect of that design choice.&nbsp; &nbsp;To be fair DND 5th ed with that same groupthink hate of the christmas tree effect kind of did the same thing if you play 5th ed only with magic items from the books.&nbsp; &nbsp; Some magic items like +1 swords will always be boring&nbsp; but magic item design due to the idea that everything should be balanced has been in the doldrums for a long time.&nbsp;&nbsp; Magic items to be fun should solve problems, or give players something they can't get by base rules.&nbsp;&nbsp; That was the original idea in 1st edition for magic items.&nbsp; A magic user was scary but a paladin with a holy sword was even scarier.&nbsp;&nbsp; But as magic items turned into known things we look up in books and players ask for they became boring and known.(spells suffer from this as well)&nbsp;&nbsp; My solution to that is history, and things like&nbsp; unexpected powers like say flight for a sword.&nbsp; But listen to your players when they are talking that will give you an idea of what might excite them.&nbsp;&nbsp; One of my biggest hits was low level magic weapons that were charged like wands.&nbsp;&nbsp; I came up with them as a leftover from a great war in the past and some kingdoms made them because they could make them faster.&nbsp; I thought it was a little boring my 1st level players got more excited than I'd seen anyone in a long time. They were useful, unexpected at 1st level and something they'd never heard of.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's really what players want is to be surprised and have something nifty that thier friends at other tables don't.&nbsp;&nbsp; And it depends on the player.&nbsp; I had a player who's favorite magic item was a magical tent that set itself up and made him dinner.&nbsp; &nbsp; Didn't really change the game in any big way and he loved his tent.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nevin, post: 9596268, member: 7024481"] It's the tight balance and the focus on all no melee classes being expected to be support. PF2E is almost a board game. That was intentional, a core part of the player base loved it. The absolute boring play of most spell casting classes and magic items is an unfortunate side effect of that design choice. To be fair DND 5th ed with that same groupthink hate of the christmas tree effect kind of did the same thing if you play 5th ed only with magic items from the books. Some magic items like +1 swords will always be boring but magic item design due to the idea that everything should be balanced has been in the doldrums for a long time. Magic items to be fun should solve problems, or give players something they can't get by base rules. That was the original idea in 1st edition for magic items. A magic user was scary but a paladin with a holy sword was even scarier. But as magic items turned into known things we look up in books and players ask for they became boring and known.(spells suffer from this as well) My solution to that is history, and things like unexpected powers like say flight for a sword. But listen to your players when they are talking that will give you an idea of what might excite them. One of my biggest hits was low level magic weapons that were charged like wands. I came up with them as a leftover from a great war in the past and some kingdoms made them because they could make them faster. I thought it was a little boring my 1st level players got more excited than I'd seen anyone in a long time. They were useful, unexpected at 1st level and something they'd never heard of. That's really what players want is to be surprised and have something nifty that thier friends at other tables don't. And it depends on the player. I had a player who's favorite magic item was a magical tent that set itself up and made him dinner. Didn't really change the game in any big way and he loved his tent. [/QUOTE]

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