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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 3969251" data-attributes="member: 9789">True, but so could a well-placed dominate person (a 5th level spell), assuming you got the right person.When you have 7th level spells, who really cares about a save-or-slightly-delay undead spell?&nbsp; Why not just vaporize them?&nbsp; (Disintegrate is both a lower level spell and has a better chance of working.)&nbsp; I honestly believe that control undead was meant to be more like a limited dominate monster - like command undead is a limited charm monster.&nbsp; 2 spell levels lower, confined to a single type...&nbsp; It make much more sense that way.&nbsp; I think it should have been days/level instead of minutes.&nbsp; And if you're worried about controlling something too powerful - well it already has an HD cap.&nbsp; Seems fair enough.Creating creatures that create MORE creatures seems like a powerful ability... except that we're still talking about CR 1 monsters.&nbsp; Honestly, who cares?&nbsp; (Well, other than all the CR 1/2 villagers who you could have killed with a fireball anyway.)&nbsp; Not to mention that we're not talking about creating infinitely spawning critters under your control - we're talking about a single monster that you have to continue to dominate somehow (expending your resources), whose minions you would have to work even harder to ALSO control, and who - if intelligent enough - might even use their spawning abilities to topple your control of them (duh, evil).&nbsp; I think it's already well-limited.The main thing that's &quot;wrong&quot; with this spell is that the people who wrote animate dead didn't seem to realize that you could make skeletons or zombies out of more than just human commoners.&nbsp; If you keep to the idea that a 4th level spell can make only CR 1/2 or CR 1/3 creatures, then the 6th level spell to create CR 1 and then CR 3 monsters makes more sense.&nbsp; However, if you stuck with this idea, then that whole line of spells is worthless.&nbsp; Who cares how many CR 1/3 monsters you have at your command at level 7?&nbsp; Again, no one but the CR 1/2 villagers, all of whom could die to your fireball, anyway.Any other thoughts as to why these spells are so strangely high level?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 3969251, member: 9789"] True, but so could a well-placed [I]dominate person[/I] (a 5th level spell), assuming you got the right person. When you have 7th level spells, who really cares about a save-or-slightly-delay undead spell? Why not just vaporize them? ([I]Disintegrate [/I]is both a lower level spell and has a better chance of working.) I honestly believe that [I]control undead[/I] was meant to be more like a limited [I]dominate monster[/I] - like [I]command undead[/I] is a limited [I]charm monster[/I]. 2 spell levels lower, confined to a single type... It make much more sense that way. I think it should have been days/level instead of minutes. And if you're worried about controlling something too powerful - well it already has an HD cap. Seems fair enough. Creating creatures that create MORE creatures seems like a powerful ability... except that we're still talking about CR 1 monsters. Honestly, who cares? (Well, other than all the CR 1/2 villagers who you could have killed with a fireball anyway.) Not to mention that we're not talking about creating infinitely spawning critters under your control - we're talking about a single monster that you have to continue to dominate somehow (expending your resources), whose minions you would have to work even harder to ALSO control, and who - if intelligent enough - might even use their spawning abilities to topple your control of them (duh, evil). I think it's already well-limited. The main thing that's "wrong" with this spell is that the people who wrote [I]animate dead[/I] didn't seem to realize that you could make skeletons or zombies out of more than just human commoners. If you keep to the idea that a 4th level spell can make only CR 1/2 or CR 1/3 creatures, then the 6th level spell to create CR 1 and then CR 3 monsters makes more sense. However, if you stuck with this idea, then that whole line of spells is worthless. Who cares how many CR 1/3 monsters you have at your command at level 7? Again, no one but the CR 1/2 villagers, all of whom could die to your fireball, anyway. Any other thoughts as to why these spells are so strangely high level? [/QUOTE]

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