Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 3970218" data-attributes="member: 9789">irdeggman:&nbsp; Sorry if I wasn't clear.&nbsp; Control does require a saving throw, just like dominate.&nbsp; And command does for intelligent undead.&nbsp; So they're very similar.&nbsp; My explanation of the CR 1/3 thing with animate dead is not the limit of the spell:&nbsp; I was saying the spell could make sense - when relating to the create undead spells - if you could only create CR 1/2 or 1/3 creatures.&nbsp; Since you can make better creatures, it means the create series is out of whack.&nbsp; (Or at least, in comparison to animate dead.)Nail:&nbsp; Actually, animate dead is clearly more powerful than summon monster IV already.&nbsp; And create undead - at caster level 11, anyway - is far worse than summon monster VI.&nbsp; I understand your point, but I think those don't seem to make a good comparison.&nbsp; (Unless, again, animate dead could only create CR 1/2 or 1/3 creatures - which we're all agreeing is not a limitation of the spell.)Set:&nbsp; I agree in principle, but again:&nbsp; if you created an tremendous number of ghouls when you're level 11, does that really matter?&nbsp; They're CR 1 creatures.&nbsp; I mean, it could make a difference in the &quot;world&quot; at large, sure - but so could several rampaging fireballs cast by a rogue mage.&nbsp; Most town guards could probably even group up and take them out (especially elven ones).&nbsp; I still challenge the notion that a horde of CR 1 ghouls could do more damage to the &quot;world&quot; than tons of other 6th level spells.Once you start talking about mummies and shadows and things, then yes:&nbsp; the picture changes slightly.&nbsp; But only slightly.&nbsp; As-listed, those are still only available at level 15+...&nbsp; And again, I'm sure if you fired off an 8th level spell in every town you passed through, you'd make as much of a difference in the world as a bunch of shadows.I guess what I'm saying is that I'm still just not seeing it.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; Either animate dead is overpowered, or create undead is underpowered.&nbsp; But their power level just doesn't seem to stack up - at least not with create undead being 2 spell levels higher.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 3970218, member: 9789"] irdeggman: Sorry if I wasn't clear. Control [I]does [/I]require a saving throw, just like dominate. And command does for intelligent undead. So they're very similar. My explanation of the CR 1/3 thing with animate dead is not the limit of the spell: I was saying the spell could make sense - when relating to the create undead spells - if you could only create CR 1/2 or 1/3 creatures. Since you [I]can [/I]make better creatures, it means the create series is out of whack. (Or at least, in comparison to animate dead.) Nail: Actually, animate dead is clearly more powerful than summon monster IV already. And create undead - at caster level 11, anyway - is far worse than summon monster VI. I understand your point, but I think those don't seem to make a good comparison. (Unless, again, animate dead could only create CR 1/2 or 1/3 creatures - which we're all agreeing is not a limitation of the spell.) Set: I agree in principle, but again: if you created an tremendous number of ghouls when you're level 11, does that really matter? They're CR 1 creatures. I mean, it could make a difference in the "world" at large, sure - but so could several rampaging fireballs cast by a rogue mage. Most town guards could probably even group up and take them out (especially elven ones). I still challenge the notion that a horde of CR 1 ghouls could do more damage to the "world" than tons of other 6th level spells. Once you start talking about mummies and shadows and things, then yes: the picture changes slightly. But only slightly. As-listed, those are still only available at level 15+... And again, I'm sure if you fired off an 8th level spell in every town you passed through, you'd make as much of a difference in the world as a bunch of shadows. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm still just not seeing it. :) Either animate dead is overpowered, or create undead is underpowered. But their power level just doesn't seem to stack up - at least not with create undead being 2 spell levels higher. [/QUOTE]

Verification