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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 3583790" data-attributes="member: 4134">Just "waste" a round casting some defensive spell. Your high dex will make it more likely that you go before the opposition, and your spot/listen bonus will increase the chance to act on the surprise round. Now, where did I read about bonuses to those things?"Look, that guy with the big axe is either a fighter or rogue. The guy with the mace in the big armour is a cleric, if you judge by the big holy symbol around his neck. That sneaky guy who just harvested your kidneys is probably a rogue. And that guy that doesn't wear armour at all is probably... just an innocent bistander who happens to be in this dungeon. Let's not assume he's a wizard."Beyond the fact that it's not so easy to disguise the fact that you're a wizard, you can still get improved initiative (it's not just for rogues) and a high dex (which is good for wizards, anyway). Now the rogue will probably still have a better init, but not by that much. Can't win all the time. You can get fire and lightning (resist/protection lasts long enough). That and their bonus to ref saves should about equal out the danger of less HP (or a dump stat that gets neglected a bit more in the case of point buy) Assuming you have str 10, at least the bows will still be useful, especially since you can shoot and move. Against stealth specialists, but not against others.Nah  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> You can disagree, but it's still true.And they're not more powerful than elves, they're more powerful than everyone else. Those are things wizards values? Mostly it's about magic items. They cast identify, know what the thing does, and then know what it's worth.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Of course they're better than elves. And gnomes. And humans. And half-elves. And half-orcs. And halflings. Because they're overpowered. That's not a problem with elves, but with dwarves.So? They have to be the best? That's not what favoured class means. It's not "if you want to be a power gamer, use this class with this race". It's something the class likes to do. Something that they're good at (which elves are), or something that fits their history (which it does). It makes it easy for them to dip into the class and go most of the way in another class, or go most of the way in this class and dip into any other. If you go wizard all the way, you don't have any benefit from the favoured class, anyway. Same as a dwarven fighter or gnome bard.Make it +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha. They don't suffer from the cha penalty, anyway, and the dex is not too bad for them either, what with the heavy armour you get most of the time (with the speed consistency) and bonus to all saves against magic (many of which are ref saves)Can see that. Maybe except the ranger, I still think they make decent wizards. Personally, I could see -2 Con, +2 Dex, +2 Cha (they're always called to be hauntily beautiful and all that, why not put the money where the mouth is?)I'd keep the -2 cha and int. It fits. Plus, Str needs more than one stat to equal out. (Just like con, IMO), and they're not hindered too much by those two.But, anyway, I would drop the half-orcs, anyway.</blockquote>

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