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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4309510" data-attributes="member: 2011">I think it depends on the makeup of the group and the type of encounters the DM throws at them.For example, Cloud of Daggers for an extra round is somewhat decent if there is a PC Fighter in the group because the Fighter marks a target that cannot move without provoking an Opportunity Attack.Drop a 2 round CoD on the marked foe, the foe either provokes or takes Wis damage for 2 rounds (instead of 1). If he moves he provokes from the Fighter, and then the Wizard drops a 1 round CoD on the marked foe. For one round, that gives the Fighter 2 squares next to him where he (typically) cannot be attacked from and 4 squares out of 8 where he cannot be flanked (without reach weapons).Alternatively, Ray of Frost which slows up an opponent to Move 2 for 2 rounds instead of 1 round allows the Wizard to retreat.Sure, these examples are only a little extra damage and/or a slight tactical edge, but these things add up when multiple PCs synergize together to accomplish them.On the other hand, if the DM throws a lot of group surrounding ambushes at the PCs, the +1 AC might help out the Wizard a lot more. But, there is a downside to staff use.1) It requires two hands because it must be wielded to gain the AC bonus.2) It does not add to offense like Orbs or Wands, so a PC Wizard that does pay the feat for a Second Implement still needs to decide which implement to use each round.3) Having two implements at higher level requires having two magic implements with bonuses for casting spells (either that or not ever using the Staff again and wasting it). Monsters increase their Defenses by an average of 1 per level and PCs only gain level bonuses of +1 per 2 levels. This means that to stay competitive, PCs have to have magical items (plus synergies from powers, feats, and other abilities). For a dual implement using Wizard, this means two magic implements.All in all, Staff implement use appears to be specific to certain Wizard concepts and DMing styles. Otherwise, it's not too advantageous in game.</blockquote>

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