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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ConcreteBuddha" data-source="post: 153668" data-attributes="member: 3139">"You just completely ignored my point that giving everyone more skill point does not "nerf" the rogue. The rogue has double the max ranks in most skills and still has exclusive skills. If the paladin had 12 skill points per level he would still not be the equal of the rogue in skills. (assuming the original 8 pts/level for rogues)"Good point, although I still maintain that you are helping the Paladin more than you are helping Rogue. (I guess nerf was a strong term.)What I meant is this: A rogue's forte is skills and sneak attack. That is it.Any increase in another class' skill points is going to have balance issues with the rogue. The point is not that the paladin would ever be a skills fiend like the rogue, but that the paladin shouldn't ever have access to more skill points because it increases the power of said class, while the same increase in skills does not help the rogue as much."You also ignore the point I made that increasing the number of skill points per levels increases the value of intelligence rather than decreases it..."Another good point but I have to disagree with this one, too. The previous posts were talking about characters with a 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12 Intellegence.And what I mean by devaluing Intellegence goes like this:Right now, a player just might put a stat higher than 10 into Intellegence to eek out more skill points.With your system, most players would never think of doing this. In fact, they would always be satisfied with a 10 Intellegence or lower. That is a devalue to Intellegence. "The penalty has been tripled for low int, making it more important to have a higher int to avoid the penalty."Players of this game do not "avoid penalties", they gain benefits. Every Point Buy Paladin would have an 8 Int if you increase the # skill points.Why?There are only three "must have" skills for a paladin: Ride, Spot and Listen.You could make an argument for Diplomacy, but it definitely doesn't have to be maxed.Any other skill is just window dressing. "Right now there is no real penalty for having a rock bottom intelligence score rather that just a below average intelligence."Besides the fact that the character is a complete idiot instead of being slightly stupid? Besides the fact that any DM worth his salt is not going to let a 3 Intellegence character come up with anything useful as a plan, nor are they ever going to be able to figure anything out or learn anything or reason anything out.Such a character is a liability, not a resource."their cha score was a dump stat anyway."Why?"A half orc with 20,18,18,3,10,1 is a very effective character."Define "effective" and then maybe I'd agree with this.This has to do with my "And if the player does not suffer consequences from having a low Charisma, that is the fault of the DM for not taking a clue that NPC interaction can make or break a campaign just as easily as doing 112 points of damage." Which I might add, you so gracefully ignored. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />"Smite evil is charisma dependent."Only the attack bonus. the damage bonus is level dependent."None of those paladin abilities are worth a feat each, not even close, except for the mount. Spells are worth 1 feat, not 7."1) Show me a single feat that is as powerful as being immune to ALL fear and granting all your allies within 10ft. a +4 morale bonus to their saves.2) Show me a single feat that gives you immunity to ALL diseases, including mummy rot and lycanthropy.3) Show me a single feat that allows you to detect evil at WILL.4) Show me a single feat that allows you to remove ANY disease 6 times a week.5) Show me a single feat that gives you a damage bonus equal to your CLASS LEVEL to an evil creature 1/day.I would say each of these abilities is worth more than a single feat each (except for smite evil), but I was being nice.The above, of course, is if you are playing the game in a campaign. Meaning: as an adventure game in which someone called a DM reads a core handbook called the MM and uses fear, disease, and evil creatures.Of course, if you are just playing this character for arena combat, then yes, all of these abilities blow..."They have 2 spells at level 11. A 1st level cleric has 5 spells plus they get 2 domain powers. Are you saying 1 level of cleric is worth 7 feats?"No, what I am saying is this: The ability to cast up to 4th level spells is better than 7 feats. As I Fighter, I would gladly trade in 7 feats to gain the Paladin spell-list.Um...just to name a few spells: Divine Favor, Magic Weapon, Protection from Evil, Resist Elements, Undetectable Alignment, Disple Magic, GMW, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Dispel Evil, Cure Spells, Freedom of Movement, Holy Sword, Neutralize Poison, Death Ward...Each of these, if only a few for once a day, is worth 7 feats."except for the mount." I contend a mount is actually worth more than 1 feat. A permanent companion that gets nifty abilities and you can equip it with stuff and it will do whatever you say.Sounds like Leadership...and any good DM will tell you that is the most powerful feat out there.P.S. Oh yeah, and you can get that one, too.</blockquote>

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