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Message: <blockquote data-quote="reapersaurus" data-source="post: 155850" data-attributes="member: 1194">Your concept of a paladin doesn't include a paladin that can actually climb something?Or swim?Or Listen?Or Spot?Or for god's sake Sense Motive?How about the variety of Knowledge skills that are pretty much the paladin's bread-and-butter? (Religion, Nobility, War, etc)Ride and Diplomacy max a paladin out.My concept of a paladin does not equate to a one-trick pony.And that trick - Smiting Evil - sucks, cause it's Once a day.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />I think that many people are coming to the conclusion that a paladins special abilities are way overestimated by Wizards.But that's no surprise:Based on WotC's track-record, if you gave a class a special ability that let them pick their nose with a +10 bonus during the green-cheese phase of the moon, they would find a way to rationalize that as equal to any feat you could choose on your own.Or dock you spell-casting levels because of it.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />P.S. Ridley-s Cohort : the undead you'd find at low levels (skeleton and zombies) will make the Paladin's 'uber'-Detect Evil virtual-feat useless, since they're neutral.So we've pretty effectively demonstarted that most of the paladins special abilities are either highly-specialized, or near to useless.The ones that seem most effective are Lay on Hands and Smite.Lay on Hands can easily be surpassed by a Cure Light Wounds item, 5 times per day. (1,800 gp?)And Smite MAY be equatable to a forced-purchase feat at about one feat per 6 to 8 class levels.Maybe.Spellcasting is so hard to estimate - since they get half caster-level, and get so few, and must be single-classed to benefit (and have high enough Wisdom), I really wouldn't rate it that high.One feat per 6 to 8 class levels, probably.</blockquote>

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