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Message: <blockquote data-quote="enrious" data-source="post: 157388" data-attributes="member: 2126">Re: Re: I mourn the death of role-playing.Ridley, first off let me say that I'm glad you've responded civilly.I see that my post could have set people off; that was not my intention.I'm glad to see it stay friendly.Now on to your counter-points:Any class can play the role.  The paladin is required to.  Subtle difference, but a big one, IMO.I disagree with your assesment of the abilities' lack of value in serving as the Paladin-with-no-name figure.I can envision many role-playing reasons how he can be more of a hero than a fighter or even a cleric.I think we're about to switch positions for a minute. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Detect evil has more combat/danger potential than Sense Motive, I think.Now, back to normal.  Sense Motive might have more role-playing use than Detect Evil.  I'm not convinced because much of it has to do with the party, DM, and so forth, but I think you have a valid point nontheless.On the other hand, the paladin is not limited to DE or SM to find out information - paladins can use Diplomacy for example, aided by a typically high CHR.The loss of the warhorse would include my paladin as well.Why not?  Depends on the campaign - in most, I think, the average peasant knows a paladin is true to his word and upholds justice.  They may not love and trust the fighter as much as they do the paladin.The paladin would have more access to positive energy (turning/channeling), built in healing, immunity to lycanthropy, if not the mount then it's replacement, and more than likely staunch allies (in the form of other paladins).*shrug*  Am I saying it's better or what than what you suggest? No, you have to weigh whether it's worth it to you to give up those paladin abilities for the ones you list.In most circumstances, I agree.  He's granted the built in ability to heal himself, get better saving throws, and if high enough cast healing magic on himself.    Add on that a fighter's BAB and some feats that can make dealing out damage easier (by channeling positive energy) and you get someone that can stand in melee like a fighter.The way the two stand in melee will be different, but the paladin is no pushover by any stretch of the imagination.I agree with you to a point (I personally think the Smite Evil as written is next to useless) but I submit that there is more to a paladin than numbers and dice.I have found that some of the things that don't look so hot on paper have saved my paladin's bacon, such as Divine Charm and Lay on Hands.  Besides, I don't see anywhere where it is said that a paladin was supposed to be more powerful than a fighter, only different.</blockquote>

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