Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why are some NPCs so amazingly irritating? (e.g. Khelben Blackstaff)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Glyfair" data-source="post: 3768620" data-attributes="member: 53"><p>Of course, these types of NPCs evolved over time (admittedly, over a short period of time). The recurring NPC that exists to be an adventure impetus (the "patron") or to save the PCs during certain game moments (the "deus ex machina"), or just to add continuity to the game (the "running character"). They add important and entertaining elements to many games when used properly.</p><p></p><p>The problem was (and probably still is to some extent) that there is a gaming type that DMs had to protect the game from. The "I kill it" player. Put an NPC into the game that he decides he dislikes for any reason (and even dislike isn't always necessary), and he has to kill it. In order to protect the characters in the above role DMs and game designers from the early days made sure those NPCs were far out-of-the-league of the PCs. Sure there were other solutions (kicking the player out of the game), but they weren't always good options.</p><p></p><p>That attitude has been around since the early days. Look at all the stories of people bragging about killing Thor and bragging they now carry Mjolnir (the stories were pretty common in the old days). Look at all the people who comment about Elminster with comments like "I wish I could kill him" and clearly mean it. These are the people that caused much of the problem in the first place.</p><p></p><p>Are there better solutions? Sometimes. However, there isn't a single "silver bullet" solution that works in all cases. When designers put such a character in the products, the way to protect their role is took make them much more powerful than the PCs. All this wouldn't be a problem if they were used judiciously.</p><p></p><p>The problem is that many of these characters become very strong in personality and attractiveness. The fact that they are close to "invulnerable" in a story sense means that DMs and designers can afford the time and effort to flesh out their background and personalities. Many of them become fan favorites and the fans call for more material with them. If there is one thing that a company learns is that when the fans want something, you try to give it to them.</p><p></p><p>If Khelben only appeared once or twice, who would care how "annoying" he was? However, the fact that he is popular means that he is seen more and more often in games. He is a strong character for DMs to use, and many players like him as well. These characters really don't keep appearing because they are unpopular. These characters are popular.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Glyfair, post: 3768620, member: 53"] Of course, these types of NPCs evolved over time (admittedly, over a short period of time). The recurring NPC that exists to be an adventure impetus (the "patron") or to save the PCs during certain game moments (the "deus ex machina"), or just to add continuity to the game (the "running character"). They add important and entertaining elements to many games when used properly. The problem was (and probably still is to some extent) that there is a gaming type that DMs had to protect the game from. The "I kill it" player. Put an NPC into the game that he decides he dislikes for any reason (and even dislike isn't always necessary), and he has to kill it. In order to protect the characters in the above role DMs and game designers from the early days made sure those NPCs were far out-of-the-league of the PCs. Sure there were other solutions (kicking the player out of the game), but they weren't always good options. That attitude has been around since the early days. Look at all the stories of people bragging about killing Thor and bragging they now carry Mjolnir (the stories were pretty common in the old days). Look at all the people who comment about Elminster with comments like "I wish I could kill him" and clearly mean it. These are the people that caused much of the problem in the first place. Are there better solutions? Sometimes. However, there isn't a single "silver bullet" solution that works in all cases. When designers put such a character in the products, the way to protect their role is took make them much more powerful than the PCs. All this wouldn't be a problem if they were used judiciously. The problem is that many of these characters become very strong in personality and attractiveness. The fact that they are close to "invulnerable" in a story sense means that DMs and designers can afford the time and effort to flesh out their background and personalities. Many of them become fan favorites and the fans call for more material with them. If there is one thing that a company learns is that when the fans want something, you try to give it to them. If Khelben only appeared once or twice, who would care how "annoying" he was? However, the fact that he is popular means that he is seen more and more often in games. He is a strong character for DMs to use, and many players like him as well. These characters really don't keep appearing because they are unpopular. These characters are popular. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why are some NPCs so amazingly irritating? (e.g. Khelben Blackstaff)
Top