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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 1301412" data-attributes="member: 1757">The proof is in the pudding:1. Attackers can take feats and use weapons that have a greater probability of success in critting;2. Creatures with few or no vital organs are immune to crits.That's BOTH, by definition.No, this isn't what I'm saying, and you know it. There's no reason for you to be purposely obtuse.This is called hitting and damaging the tree. As Marius pointed out, it's actually hitting and damaging an OBJECT. The ability to whack the trunk harder and more precisely is represented by Power Attack, higher BAB, and higher damage bonuses. If you're not targeting the "more vulnerable" 60%, then you're not doing real damage at all. But I'm tired of beating the dead horse. You want to stand there pointing at it and talking about the fact that it has no more vital organs or points than a tree or rock, fine.  And here you prove the point made by, well, everyone else posting on this topic. A tree's trunk is a "vital area" just like my torso is a vital area. A hit to my torso isn't automatically a crit; a hit to my LIVER might be. A tree has no critical subsystem on its torso that is equivalent to, say, a liver, so no crit. If you hit a tree BRANCH, it's like hitting my finger or my ponytail; a hit that does NO damage or minimal damage. You're drawing the line at the wrong place. It's not that hit to branch = regular hit and hit to trunk = crit. It's hit to branch = miss or minimal damage and hit to trunk = hit.Again, by definition, INCORRECT. A critical hit is a special event that involves exceptionally high damage, but is designed specifically to represent a hit to a vital area; not merely the "more vital" 60% of a creature, but its EXCEPTIONALLY vital areas. A roll of 8 on a d8 for longsword damage is a high damage roll; a crit is something different.Don't quote out of context. The point was that these two kinds of damage aren't the same, not to define "incapacitating damage."Um, yes they are. Being able to be "dead" (i.e., reduced to 0 or fewer hit points) is NOT the same as having vital organs. Trees CAN be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points; they do NOT have targetable vital organs. You're trying to incorrectly conflate two things. Stop it.And finally:Thanks for disproving your own already tenuous proposition. If it's a "single point of weakness," then it cannot extend for about 60% of the tree's height. That's like saying that my heart occupies 60% of my body. A critical hit is NOT merely a hit that happens NOT to target the less vulnerable 40% of a creature's body; it's a hit that targets the most vulnerable few percent. Something that doesn't have a particularly vulnerable few percent isn't vulnerable to critical hits.</blockquote>

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