Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why are undead inherently evil?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6182829" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>The flippant but short answer is because author of the game decided it was Evil (with a capital "E", as the Rules of the universe decree it to so). And said author was influenced by the general view of necromancy as black magick, or the blackest of black magick. </p><p></p><p>Any other answer is hand waving at best and fan wanking at worst, a justification for how the world works.</p><p>But I'll play ball. Why are undead evil? </p><p></p><p>You hit on most of the arguments, but present them very one-sided. So let's start by looking at those. </p><p></p><p></p><p>People in a D&D world have solid proof for an afterlife, which also means they have solid proof their bodies are the creation of god(s) and they have tangible knowledge of the existence of the soul. So animating the dead is desecrating the creation of a god and being rude to the vessel of a soul that is not yours. </p><p>There's no reason they wouldn't want to treat bodies with respect. We treat bodies with respect because we <em>believe</em> they had a soul. Why would knowledge negate that?</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is an iffy one. Presentation of the Negative Elemental Plane is spotty at best. </p><p>The argument that without negative energy things would not be able to die is... questionable. Death is arguably the absence of positive energy not the presence of negative energy. And the NEP typically represents "unlife" more than "death". It's anti-life.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the big one.</p><p></p><p>First, arguably decay is caused by the positive plane as microorganisms are alive. But that's likely a side topic on how death and decay works in a magical world...</p><p>Second, resurrection magic has been presented as "unnatural" on more than one occasion and more than one Death god has been anti-resurrection. But, at its worst, raising the dead just delays the natural order. And most resurrection magic explicitly cannot be used on somewhat natural deaths (old age). And you cannot raise an unwilling creature, so it's not forcing someone to come back (no dragging back a soul like in Buffy). </p><p></p><p>Raising the undead is a continual violation of the natural order. It's a continual slight against nature. </p><p></p><p></p><p>You overlook ghosts and the like. Spectral undead <em>are</em> tortured souls being denied a peaceful afterlife (or escaping their just punishment). </p><p>And while liches are not tortured, they're very much the exception. Not everyone chooses to be a vampire: most vampire spawn are victims, potentially still with a soul that is slowly being corrupted and tainted with years of unnatural hunger. The same could be said for ghouls.</p><p></p><p>The reasons are also not exclusive. A vampire is both #3 and 4, which makes it worse than just raising the dead or torturing a soul. </p><p>An unmentioned reason is that many undead infect others with undeath spreading their curse to innocents. Wraith, specters, shadows, ghouls, and mohrg create spawn.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 6182829, member: 37579"] The flippant but short answer is because author of the game decided it was Evil (with a capital "E", as the Rules of the universe decree it to so). And said author was influenced by the general view of necromancy as black magick, or the blackest of black magick. Any other answer is hand waving at best and fan wanking at worst, a justification for how the world works. But I'll play ball. Why are undead evil? You hit on most of the arguments, but present them very one-sided. So let's start by looking at those. People in a D&D world have solid proof for an afterlife, which also means they have solid proof their bodies are the creation of god(s) and they have tangible knowledge of the existence of the soul. So animating the dead is desecrating the creation of a god and being rude to the vessel of a soul that is not yours. There's no reason they wouldn't want to treat bodies with respect. We treat bodies with respect because we [I]believe[/I] they had a soul. Why would knowledge negate that? This is an iffy one. Presentation of the Negative Elemental Plane is spotty at best. The argument that without negative energy things would not be able to die is... questionable. Death is arguably the absence of positive energy not the presence of negative energy. And the NEP typically represents "unlife" more than "death". It's anti-life. This is the big one. First, arguably decay is caused by the positive plane as microorganisms are alive. But that's likely a side topic on how death and decay works in a magical world... Second, resurrection magic has been presented as "unnatural" on more than one occasion and more than one Death god has been anti-resurrection. But, at its worst, raising the dead just delays the natural order. And most resurrection magic explicitly cannot be used on somewhat natural deaths (old age). And you cannot raise an unwilling creature, so it's not forcing someone to come back (no dragging back a soul like in Buffy). Raising the undead is a continual violation of the natural order. It's a continual slight against nature. You overlook ghosts and the like. Spectral undead [I]are[/I] tortured souls being denied a peaceful afterlife (or escaping their just punishment). And while liches are not tortured, they're very much the exception. Not everyone chooses to be a vampire: most vampire spawn are victims, potentially still with a soul that is slowly being corrupted and tainted with years of unnatural hunger. The same could be said for ghouls. The reasons are also not exclusive. A vampire is both #3 and 4, which makes it worse than just raising the dead or torturing a soul. An unmentioned reason is that many undead infect others with undeath spreading their curse to innocents. Wraith, specters, shadows, ghouls, and mohrg create spawn. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why are undead inherently evil?
Top