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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ARandomGod" data-source="post: 2168280" data-attributes="member: 17296">Man, I have to agree with this. Sure, they do indeed have a list of immunities a mile long. I still had to look long and hard to find something, ANYthing that I'd be willing to play as one of that race. Their list of suck (or occasional mediocrity) is just that long too. As for anyone who really thinks that there *might* be a problem, I say this. Forget for the moment all your concerns, other than a warning to the player considering the race that you might have to make him change characters later, and play it as written, and don't alter your game really... and see what happens. Personally I'm completely in support of the faction that thinks that if it's going to ruin their game they should make house rules to prevent it... on the other hand, I'm also for substantial playtesting to see what *really* needs and doesn't need altering before mucking about with altering the class, race, or rule. Don't forget that Mystic Theurge was also initially considered awesomely overpowered. I don't mind it, I consider it a cost however... and I'm surprised at the shortsightedness of other people who seem to think it's a good feat. Which is the main reason I brought it up. I think that it's a racial penalty feat instead... Everyone is all overawed at the potential to get 2/3 adamantine plate at first level, whereas I'm looking at the loss of a feat by the time I could have bought that plate.Plain toughness or improved toughness? ~_^Personally, I wouldn't take Mithral body with almost any class list, the boost in AC isn't worth the feat. You get what, +3 to AC along with a list of penalties? Sometimes worth it but you're more likely to find a feat that's better... not always however. A feat that's effectively +3 to AC with no drawbacks (for those who don't really use skills anyway) is a pretty good feat. It's still a cost however, and a big one. Any othe race could have just bought that armor for much, much cheaper than a feat.All I'm really losing is some speed... OK, fine, I'm losing a full 20 feet of speed. But I'm gaining 6 AC that I'd never be able to get any other way (because for every enchantment that could boost a character with other armor's AC by one, there's an identical enchantment that can boost this guy's armor that +1). Anyhow, I'm only taking one level of an arcane casting class, Sorc 1. Two levels of fighter for the feats and two levels of Barb, for the rage and for the uncanny dodge (it's only one more level, what else should I consider, fighter 3? Fighter three is a stupid level). Then I'm going all out Dragon Disciple. Which is NOT an arcane casting class. And the 35% spell failure... well, that's only going to affect my cantrips anyhow (other than Light). My two first level spells will be Benign Transposition (MiniHB) and True Strike. Neither of those will be affected by the potential spell failure, and both of them will be effective and useful for the entire life of the character. Would I prefer Mithril Full Plate to Adamantine Full plate? Sure. But Adamantine is good too.Plus, and I'm going to be honest here, I wanted to play a Warforged character with Adamantine body. I started with that main concept, and worked a character up around it.Would this character do better without the adamantine body feat? Well... with the Mithril one it would be only 1 AC less in the long run (after the purchase of +6 to dex item)... and it would be 20 feet faster. So I suppose that would be a better feat for him. Without any feat it would be 4 AC down (after getting items of +6 to dex), and would also be up one feat... No, Barb2/fighter2/Sorc1/DragonDisciple10 would be best in the long run with Mithril Body most likely. However, what I didn't meantion above is that I also have some plans to go from there into the Warforged Juggernaught. That requires the Adamantine Body feat. More my comments about the feat stem from the fact that I spent a very long time with the starting concept of 1) Warforged 2) Adamantine body... and I considered a lot of different options as to what would make an interesting 20 level character with that base... and I came up with a lot of frustration. It's a pretty horrible base, and the price of your only first level feat is very, very high when looked at from the viewpoint of a 20th level character (or a 15th level character). On the other hand, I think that the flexibility loss is pretty great to barbarians, who lose 20 feet of movement (from light armor), or at least the extra 10 that they could have gotten if there were a medium armor choice available. Monks.. Heck, I think Monks benifit the very most. Not from the feat, but from the race. The obviously wouldn't take the feat, but without it they're suddenly allowed to wear leather armor. This is something a monk of any other race cannot do.On the gripping hand, an arcane caster class with no spell failure (well, in any spell he can cast above cantrip level) benifits just fine from the feat. Yea, I've got to admit that looking at them from the point of view of a character who ends his career at level 12, they're pretty good.Spending further feats really just amplifies the original problem, as far as I can see. But coming up with alternate ways to change your armor, like spells or crafting mechanics (and gold in the form of special materials/labor) would do the trick nicely.Definitely, a warforged fighter is awesome until around level 6. Which is why they were 'built'. The masses of armies aren't generally higher than level 6 or so anyhow. However, while the class is definitely designed around a fighter base, as I said above, I've never seen anyone feel like sticking to fighter who's had a warforged... at least not more than the customary 2 level dip, which almost any non-casting class is going to be tempted to do.</blockquote>

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