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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7620302" data-attributes="member: 22779">[MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION], I'm not sure I agree with your premise.&nbsp; AD&amp;D, while lethal at low levels, was not particularly dangerous at higher levels.&nbsp; Granted, save or die effects might have made it more dangerous, but, most save or die effects are not a result of combat - poisons, traps, that sort of thing.&nbsp; By the time the PC's were about 6th or 7th level, they were among the most powerful combatants in the game.&nbsp; By double digit levels, they were competently taking on unique monsters.&nbsp; And, really, to me, the shift from 1e to 2e wasn't all that great.&nbsp; We killed everything we could in 1e because, well, why wouldn't you?&nbsp; Outside of dragons, there was virtually nothing that could take on a PC one on one and the group of 6-8 PC's plus a few henchmen and whatnot could mow through a LOT of combat.&nbsp; I found 3e a LOT more deadly than AD&amp;D to be honest.&nbsp; The massive increase in monster damage while the PC's didn't actually get a whole lot more HP's than in AD&amp;D meant that I was killing PC's straight up in combat pretty darn often.&nbsp; It was hard not killing PC's, to be honest.&nbsp; And, you're ignoring the fact that from 3e forward, the game codified non-combat Xp awards.&nbsp; Plenty of 3e and later modules have text to the effect of, &quot;convincing so and so to do such and such grants a CR X xp award.&quot;&nbsp; Something you rarely, if ever, saw in earlier editions.If anything, I think as time has moved on, we've moved farther and farther away from the whole &quot;murder hobo&quot; approach to the game.&nbsp; At least the modules have gone this way.&nbsp; Heck, look at Waterdeep Dragon Heist.&nbsp; You could get through most of that module with barely any combat and still get the reward at the end.&nbsp; Actually, to get the reward at the end, you have pretty much zero choice about not engaging in combat.&nbsp; Engaging the guardian of the treasure is a pretty much guaranteed tpk.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7620302, member: 22779"] [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION], I'm not sure I agree with your premise. AD&D, while lethal at low levels, was not particularly dangerous at higher levels. Granted, save or die effects might have made it more dangerous, but, most save or die effects are not a result of combat - poisons, traps, that sort of thing. By the time the PC's were about 6th or 7th level, they were among the most powerful combatants in the game. By double digit levels, they were competently taking on unique monsters. And, really, to me, the shift from 1e to 2e wasn't all that great. We killed everything we could in 1e because, well, why wouldn't you? Outside of dragons, there was virtually nothing that could take on a PC one on one and the group of 6-8 PC's plus a few henchmen and whatnot could mow through a LOT of combat. I found 3e a LOT more deadly than AD&D to be honest. The massive increase in monster damage while the PC's didn't actually get a whole lot more HP's than in AD&D meant that I was killing PC's straight up in combat pretty darn often. It was hard not killing PC's, to be honest. And, you're ignoring the fact that from 3e forward, the game codified non-combat Xp awards. Plenty of 3e and later modules have text to the effect of, "convincing so and so to do such and such grants a CR X xp award." Something you rarely, if ever, saw in earlier editions. If anything, I think as time has moved on, we've moved farther and farther away from the whole "murder hobo" approach to the game. At least the modules have gone this way. Heck, look at Waterdeep Dragon Heist. You could get through most of that module with barely any combat and still get the reward at the end. Actually, to get the reward at the end, you have pretty much zero choice about not engaging in combat. Engaging the guardian of the treasure is a pretty much guaranteed tpk. [/QUOTE]

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