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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7622247" data-attributes="member: 4937">Only if there isn't a high level cleric on hand with a selection of Slow Poison and Neutralize Poison effects.&nbsp; Slow Poison can return a PC to life with no ill-effects, no resurrection failure chance, no lost CON, even if they fail a save or die poison effect that has an instantaneous result.&nbsp; Keoghtum's ointment along with a high level cleric renders most poison a non-issue, as your little spider needs a 20 to hit most likely, and the fighter needs only a 6 or so to pass the save, and worse come to worse, you cast 'Slow Poison' and then neutralize the venom by some means.There are of course things with save or die effects that aren't &quot;little spiders&quot;, but most of those IMO aren't very fun - Rot Grubs, Magnesium Spirits, Bodaks, etc.&nbsp; They are just random unavoidable death determined in the long run by dice and not player action.I largely agree with that.&nbsp; But I also think the problem was that the designers didn't really expect players to advance to more than 10th level or so, and if they did, figured DMs could invent their own challenges without needing any sort of guide.&nbsp;&nbsp; Further, I think that designers in that period didn't routinely theory craft and do the math.&nbsp; They just sort of went with their gut, and their gut tended to make everything a glass cannon.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7622247, member: 4937"] Only if there isn't a high level cleric on hand with a selection of Slow Poison and Neutralize Poison effects. Slow Poison can return a PC to life with no ill-effects, no resurrection failure chance, no lost CON, even if they fail a save or die poison effect that has an instantaneous result. Keoghtum's ointment along with a high level cleric renders most poison a non-issue, as your little spider needs a 20 to hit most likely, and the fighter needs only a 6 or so to pass the save, and worse come to worse, you cast 'Slow Poison' and then neutralize the venom by some means. There are of course things with save or die effects that aren't "little spiders", but most of those IMO aren't very fun - Rot Grubs, Magnesium Spirits, Bodaks, etc. They are just random unavoidable death determined in the long run by dice and not player action. I largely agree with that. But I also think the problem was that the designers didn't really expect players to advance to more than 10th level or so, and if they did, figured DMs could invent their own challenges without needing any sort of guide. Further, I think that designers in that period didn't routinely theory craft and do the math. They just sort of went with their gut, and their gut tended to make everything a glass cannon. [/QUOTE]

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