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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6133088" data-attributes="member: 1465">It's not a matter of "power source" but of being different archetypes IMO.The Wizard-Necromancer covers the Dr.Frankenstein archetype who is obsessed with studying questionable magic, whether it is because of lust for knowledge, because wanting to use such magic for power (eg build an army) or for half-good reasons (bringing a beloved one back to life).The Cleric-Necromancer covers another archetype, that of a voodoo-inspired shaman or an evil cultist who just knows how to raise undead as a tool for his business.There is some obvious overlap, but my mental image about those two is very different. For instance IMO the archetypical Wiz-Nec is a society outcast who creates his own servants, while the archetypical Cle-Nec is a tribal or cult leader (think Mola-Ram from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Door).Yes I meant spontaneously cast every spell.The 3e spontaneous casting of cure spells only doesn't bother me, and neither does the druid's spontaneous casting of summon nature's ally.In general, spontaneously casting one spell effect (it can be technically many spells, but the important thing is the overall effect such as healing wounds or summoning critters) doesn't bother me, because it just covers one capability of the character.The problem would be very much critical when you can spontaneously cast enough spells so that you can cover every (or most) situations that comes up. 3e Sorcerers and UA spontaneous Clerics and Druids paid for that with harsh limits on the number of spells known.Note that in 3e, there was a core rule allowing the caster to leave some slots open, and prepare some spells them in just a matter of minutes. This is definitely less powerful than spontaneous casting, basically you cannot do this in the middle of a combat, but it can still be a problem when the list of known spell is enormous. It's the kind of idea that seems good on paper, until the caster starts using it to cast spells such as Find Traps or Knock, and step on the Rogue's toes for instance. Those spells were mostly meant to provide an alternative for groups without a Rogue, but if all clerics know Find Traps then it creates a problem. The UA spontaneous Cleric is so much better, because learning that Find Traps spell is going to cost you one precious spell known, thus the Cleric in a party without a Rogue feels very rewarded by choosing to learn this spell because she's going to make it useful (and being spontaneous, she'll never waste the slot), while the other Cleric in the party with a Rogue won't learn the spell and won't ever be tempted at stepping on the Rogue's toes.What I don't understand, is why the designers cannot see that making the number of cleric/spells spells known by level fixed (like the Wizard), this actually opens up the possibility of adding more and more cleric spells to the game without worrying, because it doesn't matter how long the cleric list becomes if each cleric still knows the same number of spells.Then again, like the Wizard, for those players who feel restricted by the fixed number of spells, there can be the possibility of learning more clerics spells in the same way as Wizard, i.e. finding a source (scroll, prayerbook, teacher...) and paying a small fee. The DM can exert her control over the source availability, if she thinks it's going too far. The cost takes care of balancing an avid spell-learner against another caster who doesn't learn additional spells.And balancing such a system should be very easy, considering that we already have it in the game for another class!</blockquote>

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