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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Virel" data-source="post: 3706522" data-attributes="member: 24633">Remathillis,First thanks for reading my comments.I think you make a very good point about would the DM be happy if every encounter was set up like a SWAT team assault. The answer of course is no, however I’ve never seen any DM mind that sort of thing being done some or a good bit of the time. Most DM’s are like smart capable players, it lets the DM be more flexible and provide honest challenges worthy of the group, without having to treat them with kid gloves. First level PC’s are weak, we can all agree on that. They should be extra careful because this entire adventure thing is new for them. It’s very reasonable to expect them to do some planning. After the have some experience, they’ll be more capable of doing stuff on the fly with less planning. In a way it’s sort of like teaching, some new teachers can do well without any sort of a lesson play but most new ones are better off with a lesson play to help them along. Experienced, teachers know what they are doing and really, don’t need the lesson plan or only need a bare outline with less detail. Same goes for the PC’s if you follow me.As for the video game player or style of play, I have seen a good bit of poor play by players of all types. One of the best players in my current 1st ed AD&D game is into WoW. One of the worst has never touched WoW. The key point, is one of the will look before they leap and think things out, the other doesn’t. It’s not the style or what they play; it’s the “I’m going to think about what I’m doing” vs the “I do whatever I want and worry about it later” camps. I’ve never been one to shy away from letting bad players get what’s coming to them. Thirty-six PC deaths in three years, last time I counted. Ninety percent of those due to leap before you look gaming.About the xp for fleeing, it’s true sometimes xp might be missed because of the retreat. However, I think a reasonable DM that understands the game might stop think and say: Hmmm, the players know they are outmatched and don’t want to fight the Hill Giant with their 1st level PCs’. That is actually a good decision, reasonable in game, so a small xp award might be reasonable at DM discretion. This sort of thing can be used to encourage play. It also teaches the newer player, that there is more to the game than blind combat. Of course, you’ll want to vary your tactics using bait is only one of several approaches to consider. Being predictable is stupid. As for fighting fair, in 1st ed PHB, none of the “garbage” is heaped onto the Paladin, that is later pilled on the character. Paladins do not have to fight fair, they have to uphold their deity which is normally 1st ed, lawful good. I have no issue with players, having a Paladin strike with surprise or from ambush. The Pal, might go for taking prisoners. The Pal wouldn’t have a problem with “bait” or other tactics. If the Pal’s deity is about honorable combat, that might be a different matter. I see Paladins as a Dirty Harry type character with Charisma. All of this Cavalier stuff of no retreat and fight to the death is best left to that class.As for not a lot of good PC’s, well we do favor neutral ones for the most part. There are some good ones. This doesn’t mean the hiring is thrown away. The PC’s have to look out and try and take care of them. It’s possible they will get a bad rep if they get their guys killed off and won’t be able to hire more. It can add some extra depth. I’ve seen parties lose a few hirelings but use their healing herbs on the other wounded hirelings. If the surviving hirelings can honestly see the group did everything it to could to protect and save the help, they can survive with their rep intact. Also, it adds some depth. Some PC’s will want to help the hireling’s family etc. Lays loose ends for other adventures, like when the hirelings older brother comes back and decides he has a score to settle with the PCs.City under attack and 1st level PC’s, well sometimes it may come down to having to stand and fight. Of course, these 1st level PC’s might not need to be the front line, sniping with arrows is worthwhile. Leading, orcs into traps is worthwhile. Jerking up trip lines, to throw orcs off of their giant wolves is worth while. Setting up an ambush to catch the raiders on the way in might be worth considering and then another ambush on the way out. The mayor might expect the PC’s to walk out into the street like the old west for a showdown but that’s not the way the PC’s have to choose to do their task.The tactics I mentioned may not be the best. They do have a proper place. They don’t have to be used all the time. There is plenty of time for heroic play, doing it at lst level with a weak PC, might not be the best time to be uber brave. One can do that if they wish but they shouldn’t be surprised if that doesn’t carry some extra risk.</blockquote>

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