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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 1107376" data-attributes="member: 7211">VirtuesI never liked this argument because its making up situations that don't really occur (at least, in my experience, and from what I've read/heard). While it is true if a fighter and a mage were on the field of battle all day eventually the mage would run out of spells (or at least, spells that are worthwhile in a pitched battle) there is little reason for the mage to stay. Unless the low-level mage was packing scrolls, potions, and wands. Unless the mid-level mage had wands and rods. Unless the high-level mage had rods and staves. While these are "resources" that will be used up at the end of a battle, a mage can be viable all day if prepared to fight all day. I'm sure the fighter would need some curative magic during the day to keep swinging, and that means a LOT of potions, multiclassing, or depending on another class (not that its a bad thing). Of course, the response is to extend this hypothetical pitched battle. Lets say their sleep was disrupted and the mage couldn't memorize more spells, most of his expendable resources are used up in a week (if that) and clearly the fighter is still "prevailing" on the battlefield. As long as he has potions and cleric-friends around.I think dcollins put something I have felt on occasion into a cohesive thought. The older editions of the game were unbalanced, but it was cool. The fighter who stopped getting a lot of hp after level 9 (?) understood that the mage would continue to grow in power, after all the mage had been sloughing it with hardly any magic for those first few levels (needing as much if not more Exp to advance). It was cool that thieves advanced quickly, that mages eventually were the most powerful uber villians (next to monsters, namely dragons), and that clerics didn't have 9th level spells.Of course, there are a lot of elements that are awesome about 3e, feats and skills are far better (imo naturally) than proficiencies and non-weapon proficiencies (with book heroes and villains occasionally just assigned special powers). It makes sense that you get an ability bonus every 4 levels and that everyone keeps getting hp after 10th level, that demihumans don't have puny level caps, that all classes advance at the same rate, and that multiclassing can be so darn easy.While those 2 paragraphs may seem to be in contradiction with one another, they aren't. Both ways were cool, in fact having recently met someone still enamored with 2e I realise there are/were tons of neat little things in 2e that I miss. But to play 2e after seeing some of 3e...I shudder. Hopefully 4th edition will find a way to bring back some of that mystique and be more than just 4.11 or Dungeons 2005. And I'm talking about more than just the names of the books <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Technik</blockquote>

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