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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ForceUser" data-source="post: 1109800" data-attributes="member: 2785">I'm surprised no one's mentioned metamagics yet. Metamagic feats are the bread and butter of a 3E wizard, and should be taken into account when comparing him, power-wise, to wizards from previous editions. Whereas wizards in previous editions simply cast the spells as listed, 3E wizards have the ability to double the range of a spell, widen its area of effect, increase its save DC, increase its damage, remove verbal or somatic components, and drastically reduce the casting times of lower level spells. Wizards in previous editions could do none of these things.I've played in an archtypal 3E Greyhawk game for over a year now. By archtypal I mean 28-point buy, core and hardback WotC books only, as-the-die-lies hit points, and DMG-standard level-appropriate magical loot. As far as I'm concerned, it's difficult to get more "standard D&D" than in this campaign. Dcollins' argument is impressive and he makes some interesting points, but having fought multiple 3.0 and 3.5 wizards in this campaign, I can tell you all that cleverly played wizards are still to be feared in 3rd edition, any hypothetical "edition nerfs" notwithstanding. There really is no substitute for taking out four 14th-level PCs with an empowered cone of cold, followed up by a quickened lightning bolt. Even at 14th-level, player characters are dying when that kind of damage comes down the pipe. I've seen it. I've watched the damage die rolls, the saves DCs, the botched Reflex saves, and the dead characters. I've seen a single 13th-level lich wizard pick apart an entire party of nine 10th-12th level PCs with cunning and precision. No arguement in this thread, no matter how well-rationalized, is going to convince me that a properly-played high level wizard is a wimp when stacked up against his ancestors or contemporaries. He isn't.</blockquote>

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