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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Klaus" data-source="post: 1170022" data-attributes="member: 607">We're talking averages here, okay?An average human War1 has 0 ranks in Move Silently, and probably a -2 armor check penalty. Moving at full speed (30ft), he suffers an additional -5 to MS. Assuming he takes 10, that's a DC 3 a dog has to beat to hear them coming. If they're trying to be sneaky, that's a DC 8, but they're moving at 15 ft. per round. Once they get at 30 feet, the dog detects their presence in the vicinity. It takes a move action to determine direction and starts barking at the appropriate direction. Seeing that their cover has been blown, the warriors rush at full speed, and goddamn the stealth. By this time, the entire party isn't going to be caught surprised. If the warriors aren't savvy on a dog being with the party, they might approach from downwind, allowing the dog to detect them at 60 feet!Another example: a dog trained for hunting or guard duty can be commanded to stand watch. The player can say the dog takes 10 on its checks, forcing any interlopers to beat a DC 15 Hide check and a DC 15 Move Silently check, or be detected. With Listen, the penalty lessens by 1 for every 10 feet, so the warriors above (who, taking 10, have a MS result of 8) will still be detected at 70 feet away!As a DM, I know I sometimes have a problem remembering all that, though...</blockquote>