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Message: <blockquote data-quote="darjr" data-source="post: 7688688" data-attributes="member: 52905">I don't think it even does that. The players skill is involved here. They still need to figure out the right skill to use at the right time and right place. The players need to engineer that. It's still a game with a chance that they won't find that clue, but this time it's not because of a failed roll after they've done everything else right.GUMSHOE doesn't hold your hand. As a player you need to engage and work the investigation. That was always my blockage with GUMSHOE. I had to get that clue by four. I live for the extemporaneous actions of the players, and in other games a failed roll can lead to all kinds of fun and wacky player actions and schemes. So in a non GUMSHOE game the players would need to find some other way into the dungeon after they failed to find the key to the portcullis or unlock it, either break it or search for another entrance or wait in ambush for someone with a key. Sure, the thief could have picked that lock, but they failed. If they want in they'll have to work the problem. Shoot, maybe they'll find a catapult and build a parachute, good luck. I LOVE that stuff.The issue may be that the thief may have spent months with the designers of the lock and the smith's that forged it and even bribed the gatekeeper for a look at the keys to get a better idea of how to pick the lock. Then the failed roll can kill a mood. But in a D&D game, for instance, the players can and do resort to violence to get in. That probably isn't in the theme of a noir investigative game. There the options may be much more limited and maybe should be.GUMSHOE has an expectation that the players will do the work to find that clue before the test. It's part of the investigation theme after all. Not ambushing the police officer who has a key, or resorting to explosives, or a wrecking ball. So the fun happens up front in GUMSHOE, even the extemporaneous fun, and whats more is it tends to drive that up front game play in the theme of a contemplative careful investigation.In a long winded way I agree with what Umbran said earlier.</blockquote>

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