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Message: <blockquote data-quote="werecorpse" data-source="post: 7688797" data-attributes="member: 55491">I can see this is futile. You say you can't model expertise in another system and gumshoe has cracked that difficult conceptual nut. Fine. I don't believe it's so hard. "The experts their presence and action are what determines that the group gets the core clues" -that's the missing ingredient? That isn't modelled? That's the player saying My character has a point in ballistics, chemistry and explosives what clues do I get. By introducing some dependency on skills you don't have to say there is a chance of failure - the no failure philosophy is IMO the crucial element of the system. No failure can be modelled by just saying if you are an expert in X skill (which I model as being you have a point, 5 ranks, a certain class, a background trait, 50% or more skill, d6 in the skill or whatever your system of choice uses) then you get the clue. It's that simple. It doesn't have to have any knock on effects. Remember the purpose is to give the players the clues - that's what it is all about. That's why the system exists. If you can achieve this in another system you have achieved the goal.You are right, playing a character with no investigative skills whatsoever in a game revolving around investigation would be less than ideal. But this is a campaign management not game system issue.I Conceded that there was a difference between rolling to see if you get more detailed clues and being able to choose when to spend the limited resource - it's different. I get that. I don't think it's better or worse. (And your wizard example is off - d20 wizards get some spells that automatically succeed and some that a roll determines success - so do they feel like experts? I reckon they feel more like experts than the guy who can't even cast spells)I understand that you will stick to gumshoe for investigative scenarios - I will continue to play them in Savage Worlds, BRP and d20 and use the gumshoe philosophy on how to make clues available.</blockquote>

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