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Why Aren't Designers Using The GUMSHOE System?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 7689109" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Ah, no. The pitch made was that the problem GUMSHOE solves is that of detective fiction. This I feel is a slight bait and switch from "GUMSHOE does detective stories" to "GUMSHOE does procedural stories". And my answer to that is "the new definition of what GUMSHOE does is that it lays naked a method of storytelling that makes me turn my TV off when the story shows its skeleton too regularly."</p><p></p><p>And frankly adding a structure as clear as GUMSHOE to a procedural story would be like adding a clock to an episode of HOUSE and a known number of pointless tests.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this is what makes dungeons like Keep on the Shadowfell so terrible. That you are meant to solve them procedurally rather than logistically and via short-circuiting or finding the loot. Part of the point of good dungeons like Caverns of Thracia is that you can jump from level to level and explore or not as you choose.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But the GM needs in many ways more buy-in for GUMSHOE than other games. It's not just the genre, it's the methodology.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't. What I have a problem with is filler stories - it's a great way to pad episodes out to reach the old Syndication Threshold for a US TV show (100 Episodes) but frankly I'd rather my RPGs not concentrate on filler episodes. And even the filler not show its structure so nakedly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that this is a bad expectation is my <em>point</em>. In order for the GM to give everything the players might all think of we need to artificially circumscribe player knowledge (both IC and OOC) and creativity to cut them down to the level of the GM in that field. We're at that point working in a universe that might as well be as silly as that of NCIS where two people typing at the same keyboard makes it easier to deal with a hacker just because that's what the GM thinks works. We're cutting the conversation out of RPGs.</p><p></p><p>And almost as bad, we're running classic silly logic puzzles here. That the crime should be soluble based on the GM's thought processes. Again the game doesn't fit the premise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd argue that a true Holmesian RPG would be almost pure illusionism. That Holmes inductive methods mean that you present Holmes the clues, he tells you who the murderer was, and that turns out to be it. But that's a sidenote.</p><p></p><p>And Holmes absolutely does probe because he expects things should be there. After all, possibly the classic clue is "Why didn't the dog bark".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 7689109, member: 87792"] Ah, no. The pitch made was that the problem GUMSHOE solves is that of detective fiction. This I feel is a slight bait and switch from "GUMSHOE does detective stories" to "GUMSHOE does procedural stories". And my answer to that is "the new definition of what GUMSHOE does is that it lays naked a method of storytelling that makes me turn my TV off when the story shows its skeleton too regularly." And frankly adding a structure as clear as GUMSHOE to a procedural story would be like adding a clock to an episode of HOUSE and a known number of pointless tests. And this is what makes dungeons like Keep on the Shadowfell so terrible. That you are meant to solve them procedurally rather than logistically and via short-circuiting or finding the loot. Part of the point of good dungeons like Caverns of Thracia is that you can jump from level to level and explore or not as you choose. But the GM needs in many ways more buy-in for GUMSHOE than other games. It's not just the genre, it's the methodology. I don't. What I have a problem with is filler stories - it's a great way to pad episodes out to reach the old Syndication Threshold for a US TV show (100 Episodes) but frankly I'd rather my RPGs not concentrate on filler episodes. And even the filler not show its structure so nakedly. And that this is a bad expectation is my [I]point[/I]. In order for the GM to give everything the players might all think of we need to artificially circumscribe player knowledge (both IC and OOC) and creativity to cut them down to the level of the GM in that field. We're at that point working in a universe that might as well be as silly as that of NCIS where two people typing at the same keyboard makes it easier to deal with a hacker just because that's what the GM thinks works. We're cutting the conversation out of RPGs. And almost as bad, we're running classic silly logic puzzles here. That the crime should be soluble based on the GM's thought processes. Again the game doesn't fit the premise. I'd argue that a true Holmesian RPG would be almost pure illusionism. That Holmes inductive methods mean that you present Holmes the clues, he tells you who the murderer was, and that turns out to be it. But that's a sidenote. And Holmes absolutely does probe because he expects things should be there. After all, possibly the classic clue is "Why didn't the dog bark". [/QUOTE]
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