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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mr. Kaze" data-source="post: 1497334" data-attributes="member: 8848">As a DM and player, I don't tend to like Paladins for the following reasons... - Paladin should not be a core class.  Quite simply, its antithesis class of Blackguard is a prestige class that takes several levels of practicing being evil to really acheive -- but people can start off blessed just because they say so?  Get real. - Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Any character claiming to have to be lawful and good in one of my campaigns is in for a rude awakening about the sorts of not-very-good-at-all that can be can per perpetrated in the name of the law, as well as the sorts of good intentions that try to get around proper procedure.  (Not to point fingers, but just look at the president of the USA...) - Low will save.  (Blackguard, too.)  C'mon, these folks are the stalwart heroes of their respective causes with even more stringent discipline requirements than clerics and they've got a weak will?  Whatever. - Mediocre advancement with artificial class restrictions.  It's not like being a monk where you get cool stuff and are advancing high saves at pretty much every level. - Reliance on a pantheon which I generally don't much care for anyway.  Maybe it's my monotheistic upbringing and such, but I just don't care for stories where the "lawful good" gods aren't actively laying some righteous smiting on the forces of evil.  So what if they die trying?  They're telling their clerics and paladins to do likewise, aren't they?  You don't see paladins delegating their crusades to farmers, do you?  (As a DM, I resolved this with a bunch of readily available evil deities while all of the good deities are trying to smite the evil deities in dimensions where mortals who aren't wholly consumed by evil won't get hurt.  Thus, evil outsiders can effectively hide behind a shield of untainted mortal souls, giving the good gods quite the moral quandry... mortals, however, have the assorted natural and ancestral spirits that they can call upon to avoid being victimized by the evil outsiders -- and not all of the evil outsiders like each other, so we don't really miss having a proper crusade at all.)If we were to fix paladins (and blackguards), we'd merge them into a single class with different skill requirements (hide?  in full plate?) kind of like how clerics are a single class regardless of alignment.  And that class would probably look an awful lot like the Singh Rager from Oriental Adventures, but with "Detect opposed alignment", "Cure/Inflict light wounds" as a spell-like ability, and that divine grace thingy in there somewhere, too.Thems my thoughts.::Kaze (had a dwarven paladin in that computerized Temple of Elemental Evil.  It didn't last.  He fell from grace when the druid was invited into a drinking contest and she won.  I think the script was "paladin not allowed to associate with people who can demonstrably hold their liquor," but it reads better as "no paladin of Moradin should ever let anybody else, much less an elfy-she-druid, win a drinking contest."  The paladin got kicked out of the party after that.)</blockquote>

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