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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 9164099" data-attributes="member: 6680772">You know, I was prepared to disagree with GreyLord and point out how 2nd Edition gutted AD&D of its exploration procedures, but looking at them together. There's not as much daylight as I thought. In fact, I'm not sure someone coming to 1e cold, without experience in OD&D, Holmes, or B/X, would come to the conclusion that it's a game about exploring dungeons (and/or wilderness) for treasure. Certainly not someone who only read the PHB, where dungeons are given as much attention as wilderness and town adventures. I remember not long ago reading through the 2e rulebooks and realizing, with some indignation, that there's no procedure for an exploration turn, and no guidance at all for making, stocking, and keying a dungeon! Nor for a wilderness map! Pshaw. And do you know how far a 2e PC can move in a 10 minute turn in a dungeon? 1,200 feet! 120 map squares before his torch is even burned a third of the way down. (For reference, in B/X this is 120 feet per turn.) Obviously, 2e doesn't care about exploration at all!Except, guys, I'm looking at the 1e PHB and DMG, and there's no procedure for running an exploration turn, and no guidance at all for making, stocking, or keying a dungeon or wilderness map. And movement is essentially the same. The subject matter covered in the DMG is essentially the same in both editions. Definitely cleaned up in 2e, but I don't see any real difference in emphasis.So, now, I'm kinda agreeing with GreyLord. I mean, I do think there was a general shift in playstyle between 1e and 2e, reinforced by the product that TSR put out in their respective times. But I no longer think the shift was especially to do with the rules of 1e and 2e themselves. People came to 1e through OD&D, Holmes, Moldvay, and Mentzer, and so they brought those expectations with them when they played, and it is only then that 1e could be seen as a dungeon/wilderness exploration game. Maybe some folks came to 2e without any prior experience, and to them it was all about plot and setting based encounters. But if folks came to it through Mentzer, the Rules Cyclopedia, or the Black Box, (or AD&D 1e through any of the above) then I take them at their word that they were playing "old school," as much as those who played 1e were. The rules themselves are not any less "old school" than 1e.So, yeah. 2e is an odd duck.</blockquote>

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