Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Why be a 3.5 fighter?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Eldritch_Lord" data-source="post: 5387830" data-attributes="member: 52073"><p>Actually, most classes have a low end and a high end of optimization, for people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing and experienced optimizers, respectively. Druids and clerics have a higher "low end" than most classes, because you can access all spells on your list and thus can't screw yourself on spell selection like a sorcerer, you have a fairly good chassis so you can survive combat even if you're not using spells well, and in the case of the druid you have an animal companion that can protect you and attack even if you don't pick the best one for your level.</p><p></p><p>By contrast, a fighter with poorly-chosen feats can be completely and absolutely ineffectual in combat. So I would contest your assertion that any class can be as effective in the same circumstance--built well, perhaps, but throw a random druid and a random fighter at the problem and the druid will probably do better.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Looking at just spells for a moment, Dandu already put up a list of arguably broken spells in core. Looking outside of core, the broken spells mostly consist of:</p><p>Celerity</p><p>Arcane Fusion</p><p>Consumptive Field</p><p>Shivering Touch</p><p>Maw of Chaos</p><p>Ray of Stupidity</p><p>Venomfire</p><p></p><p>Even if you double the length of that list because you feel I'm missing some spells, the number of broken spells from every single splatbook combined are still around the number of broken spells in Core. Broken PrCs tend to be outside of core (because core only has a dozen or so), but even then most of the characters with broken PrCs are relying on broken spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In fact I did not, and I apologize if I seemed to be attacking you. Your tone started out a bit adversarial, talking about how you wouldn't like to game with Dandu, so when you gave suggestions for keeping casters in line I assumed you meant you actually implemented all of those (and more!) in your own games. Sadly, I <em>have</em> seen DMs who do that sort of thing, and with the tonelessness of the internet....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Eldritch_Lord, post: 5387830, member: 52073"] Actually, most classes have a low end and a high end of optimization, for people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing and experienced optimizers, respectively. Druids and clerics have a higher "low end" than most classes, because you can access all spells on your list and thus can't screw yourself on spell selection like a sorcerer, you have a fairly good chassis so you can survive combat even if you're not using spells well, and in the case of the druid you have an animal companion that can protect you and attack even if you don't pick the best one for your level. By contrast, a fighter with poorly-chosen feats can be completely and absolutely ineffectual in combat. So I would contest your assertion that any class can be as effective in the same circumstance--built well, perhaps, but throw a random druid and a random fighter at the problem and the druid will probably do better. Looking at just spells for a moment, Dandu already put up a list of arguably broken spells in core. Looking outside of core, the broken spells mostly consist of: Celerity Arcane Fusion Consumptive Field Shivering Touch Maw of Chaos Ray of Stupidity Venomfire Even if you double the length of that list because you feel I'm missing some spells, the number of broken spells from every single splatbook combined are still around the number of broken spells in Core. Broken PrCs tend to be outside of core (because core only has a dozen or so), but even then most of the characters with broken PrCs are relying on broken spells. In fact I did not, and I apologize if I seemed to be attacking you. Your tone started out a bit adversarial, talking about how you wouldn't like to game with Dandu, so when you gave suggestions for keeping casters in line I assumed you meant you actually implemented all of those (and more!) in your own games. Sadly, I [I]have[/I] seen DMs who do that sort of thing, and with the tonelessness of the internet.... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Why be a 3.5 fighter?
Top