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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldritch_Lord" data-source="post: 5387830" data-attributes="member: 52073">Actually, most classes have a low end and a high end of optimization, for people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing and experienced optimizers, respectively.  Druids and clerics have a higher "low end" than most classes, because you can access all spells on your list and thus can't screw yourself on spell selection like a sorcerer, you have a fairly good chassis so you can survive combat even if you're not using spells well, and in the case of the druid you have an animal companion that can protect you and attack even if you don't pick the best one for your level.By contrast, a fighter with poorly-chosen feats can be completely and absolutely ineffectual in combat.  So I would contest your assertion that any class can be as effective in the same circumstance--built well, perhaps, but throw a random druid and a random fighter at the problem and the druid will probably do better.Looking at just spells for a moment, Dandu already put up a list of arguably broken spells in core.  Looking outside of core, the broken spells mostly consist of:CelerityArcane FusionConsumptive FieldShivering TouchMaw of ChaosRay of StupidityVenomfireEven if you double the length of that list because you feel I'm missing some spells, the number of broken spells from every single splatbook combined are still around the number of broken spells in Core.  Broken PrCs tend to be outside of core (because core only has a dozen or so), but even then most of the characters with broken PrCs are relying on broken spells.In fact I did not, and I apologize if I seemed to be attacking you.  Your tone started out a bit adversarial, talking about how you wouldn't like to game with Dandu, so when you gave suggestions for keeping casters in line I assumed you meant you actually implemented all of those (and more!) in your own games.  Sadly, I have seen DMs who do that sort of thing, and with the tonelessness of the internet....</blockquote>

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