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<blockquote data-quote="Potocki" data-source="post: 9611252" data-attributes="member: 7051657">AsYes, I absolutely agree with the idea that pure improv can create drama too - we can't disregard interpersonal drama, character choices, and general drama-seeking behavior. I haven't played Fiasco, but Paranoia is probably a close comparison in players creating their own &quot;fun&quot; without needing dice to tell them what happens.However, I would argue that when it comes to interacting with the DM, dice are nearly indispensable for creating real drama. In this way, Fiasco is a poor example, since it's DM-less. Paranoia, is maybe a better example, since it encourages dice-less interpersonal drama between players while also having a DM telling a story (or at least trying to organize the chaos). The DM might introduce plot complications, or gags, or other narrative elements meant to entertain or inform, but the actual drama of interacting with the DM's narrative results from the players rolling to see whether they succeed or fail. Paranoia is also a good example since many adventures end with the entire party failing their mission, only for the DM to introduce some deus ex machina to resolve the plot.Thinking about this some more, I think &quot;dice rolling&quot;, &quot;combat&quot;, and &quot;randomization&quot; are obfuscations of what we're really talking about - constraints versus no constraints. I think that when storytelling, especially collaborative storytelling, is unconstrained, it's less dramatic. I don't think this is a controversial opinion, to be honest. The more constrained the possibility space of the story, the greater the drama - as long as the number of possibilities is greater than 2.EDIT: And I realize that we're probably hijacking the thread at this point!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Potocki, post: 9611252, member: 7051657"] As Yes, I absolutely agree with the idea that pure improv can create drama too - we can't disregard interpersonal drama, character choices, and general drama-seeking behavior. I haven't played [I]Fiasco[/I], but [I]Paranoia [/I]is probably a close comparison in players creating their own "fun" without needing dice to tell them what happens. However, I would argue that when it comes to interacting with the DM, dice are nearly indispensable for creating real drama. In this way, [I]Fiasco [/I]is a poor example, since it's DM-less. [I]Paranoia, [/I]is maybe a better example, since it encourages dice-less interpersonal drama between players while also having a DM telling a story (or at least trying to organize the chaos). The DM might introduce plot complications, or gags, or other narrative elements meant to entertain or inform, but the actual drama of interacting with the DM's narrative results from the players [I]rolling [/I]to see whether they succeed or fail. [I]Paranoia [/I]is also a good example since many adventures end with the entire party failing their mission, only for the DM to introduce some [I]deus ex machina [/I]to resolve the plot. Thinking about this some more, I think "dice rolling", "combat", and "randomization" are obfuscations of what we're really talking about - constraints versus no constraints. I think that when storytelling, especially collaborative storytelling, is unconstrained, it's less dramatic. I don't think this is a controversial opinion, to be honest. The more constrained the possibility space of the story, the greater the drama - as long as the number of possibilities is greater than 2. EDIT: And I realize that we're probably hijacking the thread at this point! [/QUOTE]

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