Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9615132" data-attributes="member: 7026617">The problem is there's two elements going on, avowedly, with OS design:1. Less Player Centric encounter design: basically, doing things that support taking another option from combat or that make combat uninteresting depending one whether they're uphill or downhill from the party.&nbsp; While not every modern design avoids these to the same degree, there's a perception that a potential combat encounter that can't be fought (at least without cooking the books) or that is trivial is a potential encounter prone to going off the rails and/or a waste of time.&nbsp; OS proponents don't see it that way; they see them as springboards for other types of play.2. Making the former work by proper signalling: As Arylin says, in principal the idea is to give the players enough information they know to avoid or take advantage of those power differentials in a way that's actually, well, interesting.&nbsp; Two issues come up here: first, not every Old School game is as good at spelling this out as others, leading to some of the unpleasant coping mechanisms you reference that existed in such commonality early in the hobby.&nbsp; Second, some of the same people who are attracted to OSR style play sometimes have a weird sort of simulationist-fixation that tells them that providing too much information is &quot;gamist&quot;.&nbsp; Even when well meaning their attempt to thread the needle can fail out in sometimes catastrophic ways, especially if they're also resistant to letting PCs back out of things that have proven problematic.&nbsp; To make it clear I'm not saying everyone or even a majority of such GMs are like this, but there are people on this very board who will act like if the players screw up on this, that's entirely on them.So there's an intended playstyle for more Old School games that isn't objectionable on the face of it (it might end up being tedious to some people but that's another question) and then there's how it plays out in the wild, which can sometimes be quite different.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9615132, member: 7026617"] The problem is there's two elements going on, avowedly, with OS design: 1. Less Player Centric encounter design: basically, doing things that support taking another option from combat or that make combat uninteresting depending one whether they're uphill or downhill from the party. While not every modern design avoids these to the same degree, there's a perception that a potential combat encounter that can't be fought (at least without cooking the books) or that is trivial is a potential encounter prone to going off the rails and/or a waste of time. OS proponents don't see it that way; they see them as springboards for other types of play. 2. Making the former work by proper signalling: As Arylin says, in principal the idea is to give the players enough information they know to avoid or take advantage of those power differentials in a way that's actually, well, interesting. Two issues come up here: first, not every Old School game is as good at spelling this out as others, leading to some of the unpleasant coping mechanisms you reference that existed in such commonality early in the hobby. Second, some of the same people who are attracted to OSR style play sometimes have a weird sort of simulationist-fixation that tells them that providing too much information is "gamist". Even when well meaning their attempt to thread the needle can fail out in sometimes catastrophic ways, especially if they're also resistant to letting PCs back out of things that have proven problematic. To make it clear I'm not saying everyone or even a majority of such GMs are like this, but there are people on this very board who will act like if the players screw up on this, that's entirely on them. So there's an intended playstyle for more Old School games that isn't objectionable on the face of it (it might end up being tedious to some people but that's another question) and then there's how it plays out in the wild, which can sometimes be quite different. [/QUOTE]

Verification