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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7269186" data-attributes="member: 42582">The claim that no D&amp;D but for Tolkien doesn't entail no chimerae but for Tolkien. People asserting the former aren't asserting the latter. They're identifying what they regard as a necessary condition, and/or what they regard as the framing influence (for PC races, an adventuring party on an epic quest, etc), not making a claim about the origin of every (or even most) individual story elements.I don't think it very closely resembles either except in respect of tropes: Tolkien-esque tropes of the races in particular (plus some of the individual elements); S&amp;S tropes of setting off to make their fortunes. But the actual play most closely resembles a wargame.S&amp;S has a strong &quot;frolic&quot; or spontaneity dimension to it. Conan takes chances. He kills the magistrate and guards then jumps his horse onto a boat to escape the city. Classic D&amp;D doesn't encourage or reward this sort of thing at all.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7269186, member: 42582"] The claim that [I]no D&D but for Tolkien[/I] doesn't entail [I]no chimerae but for Tolkien[/I]. People asserting the former aren't asserting the latter. They're identifying what they regard as a necessary condition, and/or what they regard as the framing influence (for PC races, an adventuring party on an epic quest, etc), not making a claim about the origin of every (or even most) individual story elements. I don't think it very closely resembles either except in respect of tropes: Tolkien-esque tropes of the races in particular (plus some of the individual elements); S&S tropes of setting off to make their fortunes. But the actual play most closely resembles a wargame. S&S has a strong "frolic" or spontaneity dimension to it. Conan takes chances. He kills the magistrate and guards then jumps his horse onto a boat to escape the city. Classic D&D doesn't encourage or reward this sort of thing at all. [/QUOTE]

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