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Message: <blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 2277851" data-attributes="member: 10201">Well, i think part of the disagreement is over whether we're talking about D&D-the-RPG, or D&D-the-brand. LotR and Marvel Comics continuing to be successful despite the failure of  their respective RPGs is, i think, a point in favor of the original poster: it's the "fluff" that's of primary interest to the fans, and keeps them coming back. OTOH, it's, of course, not a particularly good comparison, because they started out as fluff, whereas non-licensed-IP RPGs either start with crunch, or start with a mix of crunch and fluff. Nonetheless, the current development of the D&D brand is similar: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">despite significant differences at the basic level, most agree that D&D3E is "D&D", just as much so as AD&D1/2. I think this is because of the continutiy of fluff: same roles (race/class), same feel of magic (both fire-and-forget, and what spells are available), same monsters, etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">despite significant similarities at the mechanical level, HackMaster is rarely considered "D&D". Again, i think this can be traced to the radical shift in the fluff, both in tone and content.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As others have pointed out, the elements of the D&D brand have grown into a lot of areas besides RPGs. I suspect that D&D-related novels continue to outsell RPGs by orders of magnitude. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"D&D" has always had a dual, maybe even triple, meaning: to RPers, it's a specific set of conventions, both mechanical and setting-wise (and it may be broad, encompassing all sorts of variants, published and unpublished, or specific, referring to a very particular ruleset and sort of setting); to the general public, it primarily encompasses a bunch of IP (though, depending on the lense through which they see it (i.e., the D&D movie), the IP they think of may have precious little in common with the IP in the actual game)--and, to further complicate matters, some think of it as a synonym for "RPG", unaware either that it is setting-specific, or that there are other RPGs out there.</li> </ul>IOW, it's the fluff that really defines "D&D", IMHO. Make relatively minor changes in the fluff with essentially no changes in the crunch, and people insist on referring to it as a new game; make radical changes to the crunch while retaining the basic fluff, and most call it "D&D with houserules".In response to which, i posit a couple related questions: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">if there were no longer D&D-branded products being published, but tons of D&D-compatible D20 System books, would D&D be "dead"?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If there were no longer D&D RPG products being published, but tons of D&D-branded novels, computer games, card games, movies, a TV show or two, coming out on a regular basis, would D&D be "dead"?</li> </ul></blockquote>

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