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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4305888" data-attributes="member: 7635">I was thoughly reading my DMG the other day (rather then hen-pecking on certain topics) and I found this gem.It then goes on to great example of a rogue swinging off a rope to push an ogre into a flaming brazier. However, more importantly, it tells you how to cast that into a check/attack/damage scenario. This is the key. Now, D&D has been unofficially doing this for years, why is this a big deal?Because this little rule-collection allows you to do ANYTHING!Anything.For example, lets say an ogre is trying to kill my rogue and I want to send him falling on his bum. Nothing fancy, just a knockdown roll. In 3.5, I make a trip attack. The ogre gets to try to bash my brains in, then we make opposed str checks, with a bonus for being larger, etc. Long story short, unless I spend two feats to get improved trip (+combat expertise) I'm not sending that ogre down. Better stick with a straight melee attack.Now, in 4e, I have two options. The most obvious is to use a power that will knock the foe prone (such as Topple Over, Rogue 3 Encounter) but that deals damage along with my attack. What if I just want to send the ogre down and run like hell?The DM could call for a strength attack vs. the ogre's fortitude. The ogre gets a +2 bonus for being large sized. If I hit (and as a rogue, str is not always my strong suit, esp against an ogre!) the ogre tumbles to the ground. No damage. Standard action.Is that fair? I don't see why not. I gave up my standard action (which could have been spent doing [w]+ dex mod damage) to make a roll to send the ogre down. I can't follow up with another attack (like Improved Trip 3.5) and its not going to stop the ogre from getting up (and allowing perhaps an Opportunity Attack, which is a basic at best) but I sent the ogre down, now I can retreat, move into a better position, etc. (BTW: that puts a bullet into the "you must use a power to knock a foe prone, OMG" argument)If 4.0 REALLY were a video game, I could never do this. If I didn't use the Topple Over power, I couldn't knock the foe down. However, my DM can adjudicate the action and create a ruling like that to allow me to try. THAT'S the DIFFERENCE!That little rule, along with the accompanying table, is all a DM needs to rule on ANY potential action a PC can do. No unnecessary sub-rulesets like 3.5, just make an X roll vs. Y value. Usually, its not as good as using a power, buts much more cinematic and allows the PCs to be really creative. Learn that rule, fellow DMs. Its what's keeping D&D from WoW...</blockquote>

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