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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8335536" data-attributes="member: 22779">In my opinion, the issue here is trying to make the term Railroad do too many jobs.&nbsp; There are so many issues being tied together under the umbrella of &quot;railroad&quot;.Take [USER=4534]@MGibster[/USER]'s example above.&nbsp; That's an issue of player buy in that was compounded by the DM trying to force things.&nbsp; IOW, it's not really a railroading issue at all.&nbsp; It's a buy in, social contract issue.&nbsp; The player just isn't on the same page here and the differences in expectations is causing the game to go pear shaped.&nbsp; Additionally, people want to frame the issue as railroad vs open world sandbox.&nbsp; But, that's not the two ends of the spectrum.&nbsp; The two ends are linear vs open world sandbox.&nbsp; You can railroad in a sandbox just as easily as you can in a linear adventure.&nbsp; Again, the above example of the sick abbot is a perfect example of railroading but, it could have occurred in an open world sandbox or in the tightest linear adventure.&nbsp; That's why I keep trying to keep the terms separate.&nbsp; Railroading is a degenerate DM behavior where player options are being constrained in order to arrive at a result 100% determined by the DM.&nbsp;&nbsp; [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER]'s example of the teleporting gem isn't a railroad at all.&nbsp; The players were not forced to touch the gem.&nbsp; There were hundreds of options available to them - research the gem, various spells like Augury or Contact other Planes to determine what might happen if the gem is touched, use disposable NPC's, like a summoned monster or an Unseen Servant to pick up the gem, Bardic knowledge, questioning the dungeon's inhabitants, etc.&nbsp; Now, if the DM decides that one of the PC's touch the gem no matter what the player's declare (oh, sorry, you tripped and touched the gem...)&nbsp; THAT'S railroading.&nbsp; But a teleporting gem trap?&nbsp; Nope, not railroading at all.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8335536, member: 22779"] In my opinion, the issue here is trying to make the term Railroad do too many jobs. There are so many issues being tied together under the umbrella of "railroad". Take [USER=4534]@MGibster[/USER]'s example above. That's an issue of player buy in that was compounded by the DM trying to force things. IOW, it's not really a railroading issue at all. It's a buy in, social contract issue. The player just isn't on the same page here and the differences in expectations is causing the game to go pear shaped. Additionally, people want to frame the issue as railroad vs open world sandbox. But, that's not the two ends of the spectrum. The two ends are linear vs open world sandbox. You can railroad in a sandbox just as easily as you can in a linear adventure. Again, the above example of the sick abbot is a perfect example of railroading but, it could have occurred in an open world sandbox or in the tightest linear adventure. That's why I keep trying to keep the terms separate. Railroading is a degenerate DM behavior where player options are being constrained in order to arrive at a result 100% [U]determined by the DM.[/U] [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER]'s example of the teleporting gem isn't a railroad at all. The players were not forced to touch the gem. There were hundreds of options available to them - research the gem, various spells like Augury or Contact other Planes to determine what might happen if the gem is touched, use disposable NPC's, like a summoned monster or an Unseen Servant to pick up the gem, Bardic knowledge, questioning the dungeon's inhabitants, etc. Now, if the DM decides that one of the PC's touch the gem no matter what the player's declare (oh, sorry, you tripped and touched the gem...) THAT'S railroading. But a teleporting gem trap? Nope, not railroading at all. [/QUOTE]

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