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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8336218" data-attributes="member: 86653">To quote you, &quot;This, right here, is wild.&quot;Which is it? It can't be both. If you mean illusory in the sense that they're not real in the meatspace sense of real, then yes, they're illusory by dint of them being choices in an elf game. If you mean illusory in the sense of them not having meaning or consequence in the game, then they're clearly contradictory statements.It becomes a shell game if the DM moves things around so that the players' choices don't matter.To you, perhaps.So it's bad when no matter what you do the DM forces their predetermined story on the players? Got it.So now it's perfectly fine when no matter what you do the DM forces their predetermined story on the players? That's confused.It's only a question of scale between Quantum Ogres and the Dead Princess. Both remove meaningful, consequential choice from the players.The problem is that the DM has forgotten that it's a collaborative storytelling game. If the player doesn't want to engage with those hooks, the DM should talk to the player and design better hooks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8336218, member: 86653"] To quote you, "This, right here, is wild." Which is it? It can't be both. If you mean illusory in the sense that they're not real in the meatspace sense of real, then yes, they're illusory by dint of them being choices in an elf game. If you mean illusory in the sense of them not having meaning or consequence in the game, then they're clearly contradictory statements. It becomes a shell game if the DM moves things around so that the players' choices don't matter. To you, perhaps. So it's bad when no matter what you do the DM forces their predetermined story on the players? Got it. So now it's perfectly fine when no matter what you do the DM forces their predetermined story on the players? That's confused. It's only a question of scale between Quantum Ogres and the Dead Princess. Both remove meaningful, consequential choice from the players. The problem is that the DM has forgotten that it's a collaborative storytelling game. If the player doesn't want to engage with those hooks, the DM should talk to the player and design better hooks. [/QUOTE]

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