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Message: <blockquote data-quote="wolff96" data-source="post: 5708681" data-attributes="member: 342">I'm not the one quoted, but here are my responses from our table.If you're trying to make a defensive monk, it's all about the Dexterity.  And a monk never has to worry about the Maximum Dexterity on his armor.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />A little of both.  They certainly aren't as skilled as a rogue, but they can do some solid damage like a fighter.  A human monk can knock out 6 skill points a level if he doesn't completely tank Intelligence -- not Rogue level, certainly, but skilled.I'm generally more worried about things like Enervation and Disintegration when it comes to Touch AC.  This is definitely going to vary the most around tables.  In our games, we tend to face a lot of spellcasters and Touch AC is *VITAL*.Not to mention that most of our Paladins tend to go the Two-Handed Smite route.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I guess I'm not seeing a huge difference in Monk and Paladin HP.  One uses d8s, one uses d10s.  That's a difference of 1 HP per level on average.  And both classes are rather MAD, so it's not like a fighter that comes out of the gate with a huge CON score.  The Paladin *can* heal himself more effectively, of course.This is one place where the DM / table will definitely matter.  We use Brass Knuckles as the Armory listed them -- and will continue to do so until there is actual errata to change it.  They've certainly had the opportunity to do it.Again, we're not using the horribly over-priced Amulet, but Brass Knuckles.  Mine are currently +3 Holy Serpent-Bane.  The party fighter and I both have 18 Strengths, though I out-damage him (his flail to my 2d6 unarmed).  His armor class is higher than mine, with plate and a shield.I commented earlier in this thread that the lack of a way to use all those attacks and movement at the same time is MY biggest gripe.  As it is, I usually close with a charge while the Fighter either trips or uses Dirty Trick and then we just combo down foes.  I'm more fragile but blow his damage out of the water, while he's the rock that can soak up the AoO's when we close on a monster.Honestly?  Yes.  As you're aware, stealth -- to avoid huge penalties -- is at half-speed.  A monk can usually outrun the rest of the party WHILE moving quietly.  If he does get spotted, he's got a fast movement speed to ensure he doesn't get caught (and Dimension Door, at later levels).There are certainly monsters (flying dragons and air elementals, right off the top of my head) that can outrun a monk, but almost all monsters can keep up with or outrun any other fleeing scout. Monks need good scores.  I don't think anyone will ever argue that one.  When I rolled a spectacular set of abilities for the current game, I knew it was time to play a monk.----------------------------------I'm not arguing that monks are perfect.  I just hear lots of people complain about them being underpowered and weak, which does not agree with what I've seen at our gaming table.  Honestly, the DM (and fighter, to a lesser extent) spend lots of time complaining about how *over* powered my current monk is...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think monks could use a tweak -- especially a way to combine their speed and their attacks -- but it has proven to be a solid class at our gaming table.</blockquote>

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