Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="uzagi_akimbo" data-source="post: 1468625" data-attributes="member: 15945">&quot;Sleep&quot; having been too powerful in 3.0 ? yeah sure - for one, the caster faced some difficulties when placing it - 15' radius is quite an area (on the other hand - just how many orcs do fit into a 15' spread area anyway ?), if you do not want to affect your fighter buddies. Second - the variability made things more uncertain - was the spell going to be powerful enough to get that ogre, bugbear or the pair of gnolls&nbsp; - hence more fun. Third - I have mostly seen it used to take out mounts, guards (animal and humanoid) and for taking prisoners. In close comabt the effects were just too uncertain, and I haven't faced a crowd of orcs/sent them at my players at levels 1st-3rd anyway. Creatures of 5HD and more were unaffected then anyway (and it still beingIMHO the lynchpin of the whole nerf was the difficulty of adjucating what 'trigger' (and action type)&nbsp; is needed to awaken someone -&nbsp; what constituted &quot;normal noise&quot; in 3.0, and why was bellowing/roaring at the top of one's lungs not enough to keep someone awake ? And why was kicking someone in passing (or even stepping on him while running past etc. ) either not good enough to awaken a 'sleeper' or required a standard action ? Because WotC wanted a clean cut rule, so they&nbsp; 'sleep', got axed by shrinking its radius, extending its casting time and taking out the variability....Oh my - but then it could have been so easy. Just why didn't anyone consider a random delayed onset (say 1D3 rounds with a possible renewed save for noise and tumultous surroundings - quite ok, versus guards, rather useless versus charging orcs or in mid-melee ) or even more simple, staggering the spell's effectiveness - like 1d4+1 HD affected at level 1, cap of 4HD , +1/level up to 1D4+5 maximum .... as they did with 'burnings hands' etc ? Nawh - that would have been way too simple !</blockquote>

[QUOTE="uzagi_akimbo, post: 1468625, member: 15945"] "Sleep" having been too powerful in 3.0 ? yeah sure - for one, the caster faced some difficulties when placing it - 15' radius is quite an area (on the other hand - just how many orcs do fit into a 15' spread area anyway ?), if you do not want to affect your fighter buddies. Second - the variability made things more uncertain - was the spell going to be powerful enough to get that ogre, bugbear or the pair of gnolls - hence more fun. Third - I have mostly seen it used to take out mounts, guards (animal and humanoid) and for taking prisoners. In close comabt the effects were just too uncertain, and I haven't faced a crowd of orcs/sent them at my players at levels 1st-3rd anyway. Creatures of 5HD and more were unaffected then anyway (and it still being IMHO the lynchpin of the whole nerf was the difficulty of adjucating what 'trigger' (and action type) is needed to awaken someone - what constituted "normal noise" in 3.0, and why was bellowing/roaring at the top of one's lungs not enough to keep someone awake ? And why was kicking someone in passing (or even stepping on him while running past etc. ) either not good enough to awaken a 'sleeper' or required a standard action ? Because WotC wanted a clean cut rule, so they 'sleep', got axed by shrinking its radius, extending its casting time and taking out the variability.... Oh my - but then it could have been so easy. Just why didn't anyone consider a random delayed onset (say 1D3 rounds with a possible renewed save for noise and tumultous surroundings - quite ok, versus guards, rather useless versus charging orcs or in mid-melee ) or even more simple, staggering the spell's effectiveness - like 1d4+1 HD affected at level 1, cap of 4HD , +1/level up to 1D4+5 maximum .... as they did with 'burnings hands' etc ? Nawh - that would have been way too simple ! [/QUOTE]

Verification