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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 1469627" data-attributes="member: 9053">I think these comments say it all. There's a problem with multiple empowers and maximize being applied to a spell: fix the feats so you can't apply them more than once to a spell. And that's exactly what they did. But then they also increased the casting time, reduced the area and lowered (on average) the effects.  Now the real problem is, they had a perfectly consistent way to nerf sleep and be consistent with other spell changes. A simple fix to having the spell be a PC killer would be to have it use the same mechanics as Hold Person: the affected targets get a new save each round. In fact, there could be a blanket rule applied that any spell which renders an opponent helpless allows for a saving throw each round the spell is in effect. That would be a new rule for 3.5E, rather than a "patch" for certain spells. In my opinion it is best to make rules for effects like this consistent across all similar spells. But then that's just my opinion and I could be wrong...let's go have pie. --Steve</blockquote>