Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why did they say Vancian magic would be gone?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4719274" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>I think the major difference between the "traditional" Vancian magic and the 4E approach is that it hits everyone equally.</p><p></p><p>If you had a campaign or adventure that, for whatever reasons, allowed you to run only very few combats per day (or even forced you - imagine a campaign with a lot of travel times), anyone that relied mostly on daily resources was more desirable to have then the one with fewer. Moreover so because these daily resources really packed a punch that those with only "at-will" powers (melee and ranged attacks with weapons or unarmed) couldn't compete with if used in any given encounter.</p><p></p><p>If your campaign didn't allow such rests, things looked differently. The spellcasters with their daily resources had to manage their spell resources well. This often lead to the "crossbow wielding wizard" problem that some (many/enough to be heard by WotC) players found frustrating. There was also a further factor - the moment you don't need many (or any) spell slots form a caster to beat a combat encounter, you could very easily go on "forever" - the moment you allowed and gave easy/reliable access to resources like Wands of Cure Light Wounds. This can lead to a feeling of "boring" encounters - you strike down your opponent, curestick yourself to full health. Both the encounter based and the daily challenge aspect were minimized under such circumstances.</p><p></p><p></p><p>4E removes these differences. That means that everyone is hurt equally if they don't get to rest. Moreover, it is easier to balance combats without losing the challenge aspect.</p><p></p><p>If the scenario makes it easy to rest a lot (there are no hard consequences for it, no rituals that need to be stopped for midnight, no monster bands reorganizing their defenses), you can use harder encounters that _require_ the (smart) use of daily powers. (e.g. you have to think when and where to use the power)</p><p></p><p>If the scenario makes it hard to rest a lot (there are negative consequences for resting - the BBEG might complete his plan in time, the monsters move away or reorganize), you use easier encounters that, if played "smart", don't require the use of daily powers, and you use dailies only if they will be very effective in any given situation. (For example, using a powerful Daily on an Elite or Solo monster, or using it when there are a lot of minions). </p><p></p><p></p><p>In either scenario, players of any class will be challenged equally and contribute equally. There is no scenario where all the responsibility lies on the Wizard, or scenarios where all the responsibility lie on the Fighter. (At least none that are based on the difficulty of the individual encounters or encounters per day - in other contexts, some roles might be more important or more useful.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 4719274, member: 710"] I think the major difference between the "traditional" Vancian magic and the 4E approach is that it hits everyone equally. If you had a campaign or adventure that, for whatever reasons, allowed you to run only very few combats per day (or even forced you - imagine a campaign with a lot of travel times), anyone that relied mostly on daily resources was more desirable to have then the one with fewer. Moreover so because these daily resources really packed a punch that those with only "at-will" powers (melee and ranged attacks with weapons or unarmed) couldn't compete with if used in any given encounter. If your campaign didn't allow such rests, things looked differently. The spellcasters with their daily resources had to manage their spell resources well. This often lead to the "crossbow wielding wizard" problem that some (many/enough to be heard by WotC) players found frustrating. There was also a further factor - the moment you don't need many (or any) spell slots form a caster to beat a combat encounter, you could very easily go on "forever" - the moment you allowed and gave easy/reliable access to resources like Wands of Cure Light Wounds. This can lead to a feeling of "boring" encounters - you strike down your opponent, curestick yourself to full health. Both the encounter based and the daily challenge aspect were minimized under such circumstances. 4E removes these differences. That means that everyone is hurt equally if they don't get to rest. Moreover, it is easier to balance combats without losing the challenge aspect. If the scenario makes it easy to rest a lot (there are no hard consequences for it, no rituals that need to be stopped for midnight, no monster bands reorganizing their defenses), you can use harder encounters that _require_ the (smart) use of daily powers. (e.g. you have to think when and where to use the power) If the scenario makes it hard to rest a lot (there are negative consequences for resting - the BBEG might complete his plan in time, the monsters move away or reorganize), you use easier encounters that, if played "smart", don't require the use of daily powers, and you use dailies only if they will be very effective in any given situation. (For example, using a powerful Daily on an Elite or Solo monster, or using it when there are a lot of minions). In either scenario, players of any class will be challenged equally and contribute equally. There is no scenario where all the responsibility lies on the Wizard, or scenarios where all the responsibility lie on the Fighter. (At least none that are based on the difficulty of the individual encounters or encounters per day - in other contexts, some roles might be more important or more useful.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why did they say Vancian magic would be gone?
Top